TOPIC:

OK... this is getting a bit out of hand. I thought my last post would clarify the situation but it doesnt seem to have worked.

Ger in Cork, please explain this to me: how is my expressing an opinion an abuse of this forum? I made some fair comments and I stated from the start that I did not intend to cause any offence or endanger anyone's business, but you cannot be in business and not expect to take a bit of flak. If this caused offence then I'm sorry, but this is the 21st century and if a business cant take some constructive criticism then thats not my problem. Thankfully the owners of the 2 premises took what I said on board and have expressed alot more maturity than some other members of this forum who are calling for my head on a plate!

If a bar/business supports the craft brew scene then thats great, as I said I am 100% behind brewpubs, but you cannot just brush the dirt under the carpet because they support the homebrew scene, and enforcing a policy of "good criticism or no criticism" which some members of this forum seem to want enforced is a hell of alot more controversial than any post I have made.

Perhaps I did not appreciate the negative effects of my post but as I said, this is the 21st century and if a business of any kind is not up to scratch (wether its a pub, club, shopping centre etc), you cannot blame someone for voicing an opinion! Every business has to work harder and adapt to survive in this day of recession, and thats just the way it is. Its up to the business to attract the customers at the end of the day, not up to the customers to turn a blind eye to the bad points and put up with it just for the sake of the business' survival!

I would be extremely disappointed to see a thread removed because it doesn't suit a couple of members.
Mark had a bad experience mostly it seems because of his own expectations and just bad timing, the owners of the pubs have acknowledged that he may have visited at a bad time, which he accepts and has promised to revisit them, fair play. Now its time to get over it.
If someone researching pubs in Cork only reads the first post and accepts that as the be-all and end-all they are wasting their time and bandwidth on shoddy "research" and don't deserve good pints

Guys! this is getting ridiculous,

This post should not be removed as its an opinion and everyone is allowed to express their own, as stated in a previous post, nobody complains when a positive opinion is posted!

I understand Cork area members loyalty for both bars but I can say that it won't stop me visiting each bar when I travel to Cork and most of us here are the same,

Would you ask people on trip adviser to take down negative view on bars / hotels or a reviewer in the Times to only publish positive reviews? I think not,

This is a place for intelligent discussion on all matters beer related and as such will have negative posts form time to time so its something you'll have to deal with,.

This post does not jeopardize any of the bars in question. I think that is a complete over reaction.

Kev

"Ger Cork":3bhnmwe2 wrote: I think the Moderators of the site should think seriously about this one. The initial post, whatever Marks thinks, has caused a lot of hurt and offence to management and staff of both bars
Again I think it is incumbent on the Officers of Beoir to review this thread and I strongly ask you to remove this thread.
I know if it is not removed I will have to consider whether I wish to remain a member of Beoir as this thread is damaging Irish Craft beer rather than supporting it.
Ger.[/quote:3bhnmwe2]
Ger I am saddened to hear that these comments have caused hurt and offense, however your call for this to be removed and giving an ultimatum to the effect that you would end your membership is wrong.
An Irish curse was when a new organization was set up, the first item on the agenda was to discuss the split.
Beoir is a small but vital force in promoting craft beer in Ireland both from brewery to pub and is voluntary. I, like many members (yourself included),am always directing people who are interested in Irish craft beer to pubs that stock them.

A few remarks here…
On the poor experience: I can only be surprised. But clearly, an early sunday, more so on a bank holiday weekend, it was kind of expected to see both places fairly empty. I'm not really a regular at the Bierhaus, but I can understand how confusing the place might be. Still they have one of the best beer selection in Cork and if you're really after a nice beer, chance is that you'll find it there. By the way, the Bierhaus is not a brewpub (by my definition anyway, they do not brew anything, as far as I know). So even the title of the post is kind of misleading.

For the Franciscan Well, I know the place slightly better, being what most people would call a regular. I'm very surprised that you got poor service there. For a start, waiters there usually know the brews fairly well, and easily offer a taste of them before you decide on what to drink. And just stating what you usually drink, they (he) would have been of better help I'm sure. As many already said, none of their local brews is 4.90, which I agree, would be a bit steep. The red you had is 4.30… On the lack of light, that's actually how I like my pubs, dark and quiet, and in the case of the Well, the beer garden does offer more light and is heated, best of both worlds if you ask me. Up to you to prefer modern furnitures, scorching lights and noisy atmosphere (or were you expecting a nightclub open at 3pm on a sunday afternoon ?) <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

I would usually add the Abbott Ale House to that list of nice beer pubs in Cork, but it's even smaller than the Bierhaus (and yes they also have fridges with beers, how weird is that in a beer bar ? Would you expect cakes instead ?) <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt="" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: -->

And finally, since you obviously didn't specifically talked about brewpub but pubs serving craft beers, quite a few places in Cork do serve the most popular Franciscan Well beers. I'm pretty sure that you could find a pub more to your taste, serving both those craft beers and some more commercial stuff. The list is somewhere on this board, fairly easy to find…

On the controversy about keeping or deleting the thread, I'd say it should be kept. I don't know what is the soft running the board, but it might be nice to actually have a post rating system. I agree that most people just stop at the first page and might get a wrong idea of both places mentioned, but 1) everyone is entitled to their own opinion, 2) such a rating systems might actually push readers to read the replies.

I'll stop there, as for a first post, it's lengthy enough, just hoping that you'll give both place another try, with hopefully a better experience.

And on that, I'm going back to check how my second batch is doing <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

I have been following this thread from the start and I made my opinion on the content of the original post clear at the time.

On the issue of removing the thread, I feel I have to point out that nothing in the post would have been considered inappropriate if he had been talking about pubs which were not such supporters of the Irish craft beer scene. New members have as much right as anyone to express their opinion as anyone else and the post did nothing more than describe one person's experience and express his disappointment.

We cannot have one set of rules about posts pertaining to peoples favourite businesses and another for the rest.

Failing that, should we restrict all posts to positive comments? Ban all criticism? That would devalue what we do here.

The post in question, just like all of the posts and articles which mention The Well and The Bierhaus in a positive light, should stay.

Séan