TOPIC:

"KeeganAles":2mp92j3s wrote: True, but only because, in the case of Blue Moon, Coors set up the Blue Moon Brewing Company as a separate entity.

That's misleading, and given some of the trends in the US, purposefully so.[/quote:2mp92j3s]
Agreed. So what's the plan? Change the fundamentals of company law to ban holding companies, shell companies etc, or change labelling laws so only companies that aren't owned by other companies can appear on labels?

Neither is workable, for reasons beyond the beer market.

"KeeganAles":2mp92j3s wrote: Something that [b:2mp92j3s]some[/b:2mp92j3s] craft brewers are glad to do[/quote:2mp92j3s]Fixed that for ya. It is by no means a point of distinction between macro and craft.

"KeeganAles":2mp92j3s wrote: (Stella Artois has maize, but good luck finding that in writing anywhere).[/quote:2mp92j3s]
[img:2mp92j3s]http://boakandbailey.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/stella_ad.jpg[/img:2mp92j3s][/url:2mp92j3s]
Must be my lucky day.

I'm off to buy a lottery ticket.

maize holds no negative connetations for the beer buying public. One major beer has form 30% up of it's grain bill consisting of rice. Shouldn't people know that. I know that isn't widley advertised. We both know which one.

And yes, if Blue moon or FW is a coors brand and the profits go to Millercoors shareholders, then why not have it on the bottle. It helps the consumer make an informed decision, is that a bad thing? It is at the heart of consumer rights and people deserve to know, so I really can't understand your scepticism about this.

Being a small independent brewery has that as an advantage. People like buying from them, why shouldn't they have that advantage. Shouldn't beoir be standing up for the rest of the independent craft breweries and fighting for a fair playing pitch.

Again I have no problem with big companies, but I have a problem when there isn't fairness.

This is a business deal. MC are buying a brand. If the brand locally works and the business turns a small profit, then they are happy.

If they expand here and get traction in the Irish Market, their population they are selling to is about 4.5m

If they have an established brand that they can bring to the US, their target market increases by 300m+

Do you think that Molson Coors give a s**t what anyone on here thinks?

"Irishman2":172vpmdl wrote: One major beer has form 30% up of it's grain bill consisting of rice. Shouldn't people know that. I know that isn't widley advertised. We both know which one. [/quote:172vpmdl]Budweiser? Where it mentions the rice [b:172vpmdl]on the label of every single bottle[/b:172vpmdl]?

"Irishman2":172vpmdl wrote: and the profits go to Millercoors shareholders, then why not have it on the bottle.[/quote:172vpmdl]Because it's a lot more complicated than that.

"Irishman2":172vpmdl wrote: It helps the consumer make an informed decision, is that a bad thing?[/quote:172vpmdl]No, of course not.

"Irishman2":172vpmdl wrote: I really can't understand your scepticism about this. [/quote:172vpmdl]Because company law is complicated. You seem to think that you buy a bottle of Coors Light and the profits go to a company called MillerCoors. But MillerCoors itself -- as I'm sure you know -- is a partnership between Molson Coors and SAB Miller. In Ireland there's a company called Molson Coors UK Ltd, based out of Maynooth. But the new Franciscan Well brewery is owned by a company called Docklands Brewing Company. What's its relationship with Molson Coors UK Ltd or Molson Coors? I don't know. If there are other independent investors involved and profiting, do they need to go on the label too? At its logical conclusion you won't have room for the word "Beer" any more

"Irishman2":172vpmdl wrote: Shouldn't beoir be standing up for the rest of the independent craft breweries and fighting for a fair playing pitch. [/quote:172vpmdl]Yes. It does this as a grassroots consumer-led campaign movement. Not that we're afraid of campaigning for legislative change, but when we do it has to make sense. Picking one company out of the chain of corporate entities involved in a food product and saying "That one has to go on the label" does not make sense and will get nowhere.

]Budweiser? Where it mentions the rice [b:1swe0vbp]on the label of every single bottle[/b:1swe0vbp]?

Does it, got owned there <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. I usually see a look of suprise when I tell people. Does it give the percentage? That matters as well.

[quote:1swe0vbp]

&amp;quot;Irishman2&amp;quot;:1swe0vbp wrote: I really can't understand your scepticism about this. [/quote:1swe0vbp]Because company law is complicated. You seem to think that you buy a bottle of Coors Light and the profits go to a company called MillerCoors. But MillerCoors itself -- as I'm sure you know -- is a partnership between Molson Coors and SAB Miller. In Ireland there's a company called Molson Coors UK Ltd, based out of Maynooth. But the new Franciscan Well brewery is owned by a company called Docklands Brewing Company. What's its relationship with Molson Coors UK Ltd or Molson Coors? I don't know. If there are other independent investors involved and profiting, do they need to go on the label too? At its logical conclusion you won't have room for the word "Beer" any more.[/quote:1swe0vbp]

I don't have a legal background. I wonder if there is a work around that could be looked at or if someone could be talked to? I know it is problematic. It seems quick to dismiss it out of hand though.

Also I wonder if there is a way that our icb's could positively label it's beers with a stamp or something like that. To say that they are truely independent craft brewers. Kind of like guaranteed irish.


[quote:1swe0vbp]

&amp;quot;Irishman2&amp;quot;:1swe0vbp wrote: Shouldn't beoir be standing up for the rest of the independent craft breweries and fighting for a fair playing pitch. [/quote:1swe0vbp]Yes. It does this as a grassroots consumer-led campaign movement. Not that we're afraid of campaigning for legislative change, but when we do it has to make sense. Picking one company out of the chain of corporate entities involved in a food product and saying "That one has to go on the label" does not make sense and will get nowhere.[/quote:1swe0vbp]

I think my question was unfair and a bit out of line. I apologise. I would argue to protect consumer rights we should be looking at how level the playing field and how some of these macrobreweries are selling and labelling faux craft beer. Its been a huge problem elsewhere, and i'm not just talking about millercoors.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:1859xyw8 wrote: [img:1859xyw8]http://boakandbailey.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/stella_ad.jpg[/img:1859xyw8][/url:1859xyw8]
Must be my lucky day.

I'm off to buy a lottery ticket.[/quote:1859xyw8]


The Beernut in fine form, batting for the Macros today <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

I hear that Rats swim around the fermenters at James's Gate. Have you got a poster for that ? eh ?