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"TheBeerNut":3sfm6nka wrote:

"KeeganAles":3sfm6nka wrote: I can't see any word-of-mouth campaign being effective either.[/quote:3sfm6nka]Really? May I ask how you know that Blue Moon is owned by Molson Coors? I found out by other people telling me.[/quote:3sfm6nka]

I found out in a newspaper when Belgian brewers won a lawsuit[/url:3sfm6nka] against Coors because - hey, hey! - Blue Moon's labels were misleading.
Maybe it's worth fighting over labeling after all....

"TheBeerNut":3sfm6nka wrote:

"KeeganAles":3sfm6nka wrote: The Trojan horse approach is working....[/quote:3sfm6nka]The Trojan horse implies a catastrophic ending. What I'm seeing is an erosion of the power of Diageo and Heineken. [/quote:3sfm6nka]

Erosion? I see a hydra - cut one head off the macros and two more grow.
I also see an overuse of Greek mythology analogies. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:3sfm6nka wrote:

&amp;quot;KeeganAles&amp;quot;:3sfm6nka wrote: Craft brewers list their ingredients - that's a generalization I'm comfortable with and I stand by it.[/quote:3sfm6nka]Fair enough. Macro brewers list their ingredients too. That Stella ad is nearly five years old, btw <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->[/quote:3sfm6nka]

Nope, I'm good with my whole original statement: craft brewers list ingredients, corporate breweries don't.

In fact, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is:
if anyone can make a list of five corporate beers that name their hop varieties on the label and post it here in the next hour (i.e. think of 5 beers, don't do a frenzy of Google searches) I'll buy them a pint on Wednesday at the B&C.

&amp;quot;Irishman2&amp;quot;:1f388imt wrote: I wonder why beers don't have, or give very sparse information. [/quote:1f388imt]There's an exemption for all alcoholic beverages (and cheese) and I don't know why. It is one of the things the European Beer Consumers Union campaigns for, and if its going to be changed it will most likely be at the European level.

&amp;quot;Irishman2&amp;quot;:1f388imt wrote: Would it be worth a forum in the members area?[/quote:1f388imt]If you want to start a thread, fire away. But ultmatley it's the breweries' business, not ours.

&amp;quot;Irishman2&amp;quot;:1f388imt wrote: we should highlight these guys if there is foul play or unfair play against ICB's in Ireland.[/quote:1f388imt]If you see it happening, start a thread.

&amp;quot;KeeganAles&amp;quot;:1f388imt wrote: Nope, I'm good with my whole original statement: craft brewers list ingredients, corporate breweries don't.

In fact, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is:
if anyone can make a list of five corporate beers that name their hop varieties on the label[/quote:1f388imt]I think we're at cross purposes here. When I say a list of ingredients, I mean that in the legal sense, as required on food: "all the ingredients in descending order of weight as recorded during the manufacture of the food." Hop varieties don't matter, but nothing can be left out.

That Stella poster is not a list of ingredients. Alpha Dawg saying "brewed with the finest Marris Otter malt, the high alpha UK hop Admiral was used for bittering and the American hop Cascade for aroma" is not a list of ingredients. A Beck's can that says "Ingredients: Water, Barley Malt, Hops" is a list of ingredients.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:2ew211xg wrote: ]I think we're at cross purposes here. [/quote:2ew211xg]

My purpose is the same as before: transparency.

The craft brewer says, "Hey! We want you to know we used this hop from New Zealand that was expensive to import because we care about the flavour."

The corporate brewer says, "Hey! We don't want you to know what hops we used in case next year a different bittering variety is cheaper and, strictly speaking, your beer is not the same."

Of course there are counter examples on both sides but this difference in attitude is why I drink craft beer.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:3ji00qyf wrote: Transparency is good. Does it concern you that the craft brewery shouting about its flavour hops might also be adding stablisers, foam enhancers and suchlike, and has decided you don't need to know about it?[/quote:3ji00qyf]

No, I'm not interested in splitting hairs, if that's what you're asking.