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"RichieH":3l0ag1cx wrote: And so they ship overland in large containers to have it bottled?[/quote:3l0ag1cx]Heineken? No, as far as I know any Heineken beer in a bottle is brewed and bottled abroad. Certainly cans and bottles of Heineken lager in Ireland are all produced to Irish strength in the Netherlands.

No I meant Carlow. Couldn't give a monkey's what Heineken do, I'm interested in seeing what models work for small brewers. I guess if you were a small brewer you could get by with one of the small bottling machines, Brouwland have some listed for 20000-30000e, which is not bad as an investment. I'm sure there are cheaper options, that's still steep . I've been reading Sam Calagione's "brewing up a business" and him and a couple others were bottling 10 crates an hour by hand at the beginning. He's my hero. His original brewery was just 3 converted kegs.

"RichieH":3h6l7pgd wrote: No I meant Carlow.[/quote:3h6l7pgd]Oh right, sorry. They use tankers to ship the beer, I believe.

"RichieH":3h6l7pgd wrote: I guess if you were a small brewer you could get by with one of the small bottling machines[/quote:3h6l7pgd]Or, as you say, hand bottle. I'm guessing Hilden have some sort of small cheap-and-cheerful bottling arrangement, and any MM/White Gypsy beers we've had so far have been hand bottled, capped and labelled.

I think Dean McGuinness has a bottling line at Celtic Brew, and I suspect it turns out the lager for Mao, and Shiva for Monty's until recently. I don't know though. (edit: Confirmed that Celtic Brew did brew for Mao and Monty's but have now stopped.)

Funnily enough, there's a small bottling machine in Galway Hooker, left behind by the brewery that used to operate there. I'm guessing it's not viable.

On to another question: Are offies generally bound up in deals with suppliers the way many pubs are? What I mean is, would it be possible for a small brewery to market directly to the dozen or 20 or however many there are decent offies that stock decent beer, or would you have to go through a supplier? I'm still thinking through the model of started extremely small, hand bottling, and selling crate by crate to various clients, i.e. offies and a couple of pubs.

"RichieH":3tgxht5i wrote: Are offies generally bound up in deals with suppliers the way many pubs are?[/quote:3tgxht5i]With the big suppliers, yes. But that doesn't mean there isn't room for smaller producers.

"RichieH":3tgxht5i wrote: would it be possible for a small brewery to market directly to the dozen or 20 or however many there are decent offies that stock decent beer[/quote:3tgxht5i]It's a lot of work, but yes, I'd say that's the best way to do it.

"RichieH":3tgxht5i wrote: I'm still thinking through the model of started extremely small, hand bottling, and selling crate by crate to various clients[/quote:3tgxht5i]There's no practical reason that wouldn't work. But you'll be a long time making up the huge capital outlay required before the first bottle is ready.

[quote:uzok5flh]But you'll be a long time making up the huge capital outlay required before the first bottle is ready.[/quote:uzok5flh]

Well I guess that would depend on big costs such as rent, etc. I'm still inspired by how small Calagione's setup was, it was pretty much the average setup of most serious american homebrewers. As far as startup goes, the brewing license is cheap. ingredients are (relatively) cheap. I guess you'd have to find a cheap source of bottles, a decent labeling setup, before you even try marketing anything to anyone. It's daydreams like this that keep me from what I should be doing.