TOPIC:

"baconsarnie":1be7rtsd wrote: i'm struggling to see most Irish publicans taking a "risk" with Irish Craft beer even if it guaranteed people kicking the doors to get in to get a pint.[/quote:1be7rtsd]I can't see them turning away business.

Though it is important to remember that we will always be talking about a niche here. People make unfavourable comparisons with the UK, but cask ale is available in only about 51% of UK pubs. Take away the big national macro-cask brands and you're definitely talking in niche terms.

"TheBeerNut":aeylb26c wrote: I can't see them turning away business.[/quote:aeylb26c]

Maybe I'm being too cynical today (just today? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> ) and i hope you prove me wrong.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:aeylb26c wrote: it is important to remember that we will always be talking about a niche here[/quote:aeylb26c]

Naturally. And even though it is growing, the advertising budgets of the macros will always convince the large majority of drinkers is what they need is [i:aeylb26c]ice cold lager [/i:aeylb26c] or some stout that [i:aeylb26c]really makes you Irish if you drink it[/i:aeylb26c](sure wasn't the American President drinking it, and didn't it make us all proud to see him drink a real Irish stout).

As someone said way back in one of the original "what are we trying to do in Beoir" threads, I'll be happy if there is a bar in every county that serves Irish Craft Beer. Long way to go yet.

Great discussion and a real eye opener regarding the politics of pubs and the business end of things.

I live in Rathvilly, Carlow and I can get Carlow beer in 2 off licences in Tullow, our nearest big town but it's not available in any of the pubs.

However, coming back to a point thebeernut made, in Supervalu they have placed a couple of signs next to the Carlow beer saying, 'Local beer, supporting local jobs' or something to that effect. the result of this has been that if I don't make it down there before 6 on a Friday all the IPA is gone!
So, I definitely think people will buy it, ask for it and support it IF they know about it.

"It's local beer, for local people! There's nothing for you here!"

&amp;quot;Tube&amp;quot;:2bl4ovm8 wrote: No John, not at all. I know that O'Hara's sell lots and lots of beer and are half way to becoming a macro <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Leaving my smartass aside, O'Hara's has always been different to me. The have been more makers of supermarket beer than makers of craft beer.[/quote:2bl4ovm8]

Are you serious??!?

Yes, they're a successful Irish Craft Brewery and they've been expanding rapidly and they certainly do focus on their bottled product and do a brisk export business (which is par for the course for successful breweries in Ireland throughout history, isn't it?) but "approaching macro"?!? "makers of supermarket beer (rather) than makers of craft beer"?!?

-I'd like to know your definition of craft beer because if O'hara's doesn't fit it, I'm expecting that there's a whole lot more breweries on the typical "list of 13" that wouldn't fit it either.

If it's a brewery that focuses on their bottled product before their draft product, then you must remove one of Ireland's newest and smallest (and most promising, IMHO) craft breweries, too.

If it's a brewery that has good branding and a professional looking website then a few more drop off the list.

If it's a brewery that's been operating more than 10 years then you must cross a few more off of your list.

If it's a size-based standard then what is your standard? In the US a microbrewery is a brewery that has a total annual production of 720 million liters or less a year (it was 1.8 million liters before 2011). -O'haras just shed their previous 15 HL brewery within the last 18 months...

Craft beer, in my opinion SHOULD be something that people can actually get a hold of and consume without driving to one of a handful of "speciality off-licenses" or speciality beer bars; this should be the ideal and not an exclusion from the definition of craft beer.

Growing craft breweries that expand their size, the number of people they employ locally, and their export market (aka the amount of money that they convince people in other countries to bring into the local Irish economy) are the type of breweries that should be DESIRED and represent an ideal to be lived up to, IMO.

Has O'hara's suddenly "lost their craft brewing soul" by moving into a bigger brewery and shedding the industrial estate unit that represents the average Irish craft brewery? -I think the validity of any such implication becomes immediately apparent when you view the products that they've been coming out with over the past couple of years; a barrel-aged stout (which was a bit soured in year one) turned into a commercial product and another product which is still to my knowledge the most heavily hopped beer produced on this island (O'hara's IPA); both of which started off their lives as limited releases to the craft beer enthusiast and Beoir community... I can also say that a fairly recent conversation with their newest and youngest brewer certainly reveals a passion and a focus on the PRODUCT; all not just attributes of a "craft brewery" in my book, but IDEAL attributes of a craft brewery.



There have certainly been instances of a couple of macros trying to claim some sort of Irish Craft Brewing heritage but O'hara's isn't one of them; they've been here for 13 years and meet every generally accepted qualitative and quantitative definition of "craft brewer" I've ever heard.

There's some of the biggest of the big brewing companies in the world on this island whose ingredient purchase decisions are made by accountants and whose beer is made by industrial robots and tastes like slightly yellowed Ballygowen and on the flip side there's legitimate craft breweries making flavour and ingredient-focused products and struggling to convince "Sean Pintglass" (the local counter part to the American "Joe Sixpack") to drink something that doesn't come out of a frosted lager tap; what happened to "a house divided"?

What IS your definition of craft brewery?

</End Rant>
Adam
[Edit] Read that they're literally half way to losing their legal standing as a "micro" but there's several orders of magnitude of difference between that definition and the rest of the "macros" on this island and the "super market beer vs. micro brewery" comment still requires clarification.

&amp;quot;Tube&amp;quot;:14zd5adq wrote: No John, not at all. I know that O'Hara's sell lots and lots of beer and are half way to becoming a macro <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Leaving my smartass aside, O'Hara's has always been different to me. The have been more makers of supermarket beer than makers of craft beer.[/quote:14zd5adq]

But your whole argument was based on the assumption that if a microbrewery doesn't compete on price they can't be successful ; O'hara's is a prime example of that NOT being the case. I think John was pointing out that your argument is based upon a confirmed logical fallacy and that O'hara's continued success and breaking the "half way to macro" barrier proves it.

-Sounds like pretty good reasoning to me...


Adam