TOPIC:

"Andrew":366o092j wrote:

"Tube":366o092j wrote:

"TheBeerNut":366o092j wrote: This costs the same as Guinness.[/quote:366o092j]
That's different. That's competing on price. Something I've been saying O'Haras don't do.[/quote:366o092j]

Unfortunately Guinness have a bit of history when it comes to undercutting competitors in order to drive them out of the market...[/quote:366o092j]
While that may be true, you can't say you were driven out when you priced yourself out before you ever got in!

"Tube":2zropurv wrote: Telling them it costs more because it tastes better -- to you -- isn't in my view good enough. [/quote:2zropurv]

The fact that it costs more is precisely *how you know* that it tastes better. That's why Maker's Mark is half again as much as Jack Daniels.

Even in craft-friendly America, people went mad when Dogfish Head came out charging $12 a [i:2zropurv]four[/i:2zropurv]-pack. But there was nothing like World Wide Stout or 90 Minute, so it sold.

"Tube":2zropurv wrote: I'm not a marketing expert, but if I had a product perceived to be directly in competition with an established brand I would feel a lot happier if I was price competitive.[/quote:2zropurv]

"DEMPSEY":2zropurv wrote: Craft beer by its nature is a high end product and while it needs to be competitive in price, price is not the primary motive of the punter.[/quote:2zropurv]

Here's the crux of the issue - are craft beers perceived to be in direct competition with the macros?

I don't know if they are even now in the US - the 1800+ craft breweries only account for something just under 5% of sales by volume. Most of the country still drinks Bud.

Similarly, in Ireland, nothing can be in direct competition with Guinness, given their advertising, talked-up history and brand loyalty. But that hasn't stopped them from steadily losing market share for the past decade.

"TheBeerNut":29bgcn4u wrote:

"DrJohn":29bgcn4u wrote: DRIVE!!??? Encourage, John, encourage![/quote:29bgcn4u]Nope, definitely thinking heifers and big sticks here.[/quote:29bgcn4u]John. I have to say Im shocked and disappointed by this approach of yours. Surely you would agree this[/url:29bgcn4u] is a better solution to the problem. And you can buy them in the thousands!

"Tube":402grbfx wrote: That's different. That's competing on price. Something I've been saying O'Haras don't do.[/quote:402grbfx]Fair point. But "This costs 5c more, keeps the profits local etc etc" isn't that much different. Personally, I don't think I've seen a noticeable difference between the price of a pint of O'Hara's and Guinness where I've seen them side-by-side, but I'm aware that all gets multiplied upward for the publican buying by the keg.

"Tube":402grbfx wrote: As well as ignorance, economics is a part of the equation.[/quote:402grbfx]I don't accept that for a second. There would be no €5 pints anywhere in the country if it were true. Imagine discussing the price of a pint today with yourself from 15 years ago (assuming you're old enough to have been drinking then!) "No-one would ever pay that much for a pint" he'd say, just as you'd say the same thing to future you telling you that the average price of a pint in Ireland is now €12. "Mad! Sure that can't possibly be supported by the market."

Irish drinkers have always managed to find the money to keep our national beer consumption levels in the world's top three or four.

"KeeganAles":402grbfx wrote: are craft beers perceived to be in direct competition with the macros? [/quote:402grbfx]To the average publican, yes. The idea that there's room for niche products, and profits to be had from them, hasn't really crept in yet. I think it's getting there, though. It's why I think a greater presence from the likes of A-B InBev (now distributed by C&C) and MolsonCoors is a good thing for Ireland, even if I don't think their beers are much different to what the Big Two are selling. More players helps break down the publican's view of the brewing industry as a monolith.

"IrishPartyAle":402grbfx wrote: Surely you would agree this is a better solution to the problem. And you can buy them in the thousands![/quote:402grbfx]I am against the use of extraneous electricity.

"TheBeerNut":1rghhr0j wrote: helps break down the publican's view[/quote:1rghhr0j]

Herein lies (for me) the major problem. Barring the obvious noble exceptions, as a trade, are Irish bar owners/staff the least knowledgeable professionals about? Imagine walking into a butcher and pointing at a piece of ribeye, asking what it was and being told "i've no idea, i only eat chicken".

Yet (again with the usual caveats) how many publicans would even offer an opinion on their current meagre fare? Bet you'd get a "i've no time for that, I'm a stout man myself". I may be biased but i don't see too many of them taking the leap into the unknown, regardless of pressure from any of the macros.

As it's been said before, it's not like any of them had to be knowledgelable or practice any sort of sales technique in order to keep afloat.

How to overcome this? Well, spaces like Beoir are the obvious point to get people thinking differently about beer in Ireland. But we might need to go beyond that- do we need to suggest as part of Beoir that people should do X,Y or Z to get publicans thinking about Irish Craft beer- with the suggestions that TBN is putting forward? A presentation to the VFI? Why Craft beer is good for Ireland?

The really simple thing for Beoir members is not to spend money in places that have no intention of supporting choice. If the public keep paying for it, there will be no change

"baconsarnie":2qow8hh1 wrote: A presentation to the VFI? Why Craft beer is good for Ireland? [/quote:2qow8hh1]Unless we can stand up and say "If you sell craft beer you will get more money" there's no point. And we can't, yet.