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From speaking to (2) bar managers in the trade, they'd be quite happy to push the stout on customers. That's not a problem. One of them used to stock O'Hara's and did a lot of promotion off his own bat, including giving free pints out to punters who asked for Guinness.

It's pushing it on existing stout drinkers and then telling them that it costs more. This is despite the fact that they already have absolutely no incentive to move.

Pricing lower that a macro. I couldn't disagree more. A micro's first and only real weapon is keener pricing when products are perceived to be directly, perfectly, in competition. The customer can quantify price, everything else is subjective.

"Tube":p8r77p4t wrote: A micro's first and only real weapon in keener pricing when products are perceived to be directly, perfectly, in competition.[/quote:p8r77p4t]IMO, changing that perception is the only sustainable tactic, otherwise you end up in a race to the bottom which you'll lose. If the price competition works, and you get your wide distribution and pubs full of happy drinkers, you're stuck at that price point for good: you are officially a Maker Of Cheap Beer. Other people can undercut you, but you can't put your prices up. And you may not be making enough to pay your brewery's debts.

Lower pricing can work in the short-term, but a higher-quality product marketed with integrity is the only sustainable way to do it, IMO. Trying to "convert" drinkers from one brand loyalty to another is the big boys' game and they're haemorrhaging money at it.

"TheBeerNut":3j0j50h5 wrote: a higher-quality product marketed with integrity is the only sustainable way to do it,[/quote:3j0j50h5]
All of which requires marketing budgets, advertising campaigns, which push a message which is entirely subjective. Asking people to pay more for a product that they know nothing about is risky. Not spending money on marketing and waiting for word of mouth may result in a long wait too. No guarantees there either.

Otoh, drop the retail price to 5c below the nearest competitor. At least then you're not scaring off potential customers.

Potential customers. Not customers yet. You need to get them in first. Telling them it costs more because it tastes better -- to you -- isn't in my view good enough. I suspect most bar mamagers feel the same as me.

I'm not a marketing expert, but if I had a product perceived to be directly in competition with an established brand I would feel a lot happier if I was price competitive.

The irony is, and I'm probably going to get shot for this(!), is that if I had every stout in Ireland on a bar in front of me, O'Hara's wouldn't be my first or second choice!

The other irony is that bar manager that used to sell it that I mentioned above... he priced it at 30c lower than Guinness.

"TheBeerNut":2mlqbfpf wrote: That's what our Directory is for: to drive people into pubs where they wouldn't otherwise go.
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DRIVE!!??? Encourage, John, encourage!

I agree with TBN,you will lose if you try to take on the big brewers on price. If you consider the type of customer who seeks out craft beer you find they are discerning in more than just beer. Craft beer by its nature is a high end product and while it needs to be competitive in price,price is not the primary motive of the punter.

"Tube":3ixvlpbj wrote: All of which requires marketing budgets, advertising campaigns, which push a message which is entirely subjective.[/quote:3ixvlpbj]I mean something simple and factual: a cardboard standy on the pub tables saying this is Carlow beer made here in the county and supporting local jobs. Or something along the lines of the banners the Porterhouse used to have[/url:3ixvlpbj] outside their office on Tara Street. Maybe I'm the only one who saw them, but I thought they were very effective.

"Tube":3ixvlpbj wrote: Asking people to pay more for a product that they know nothing about is risky.[/quote:3ixvlpbj]Sample at the bar. This costs the same as Guinness, it's made in Carlow and supports our ecomony, do you prefer it, yes/no? If no, they're not your customer and you'll never make money out of them. If no-one was interested in supporting local Carlow beer, this thread wouldn't exist.

"Tube":3ixvlpbj wrote: Not spending money on marketing and waiting for word of mouth may result in a long wait too. No guarantees there either.[/quote:3ixvlpbj]True. Though Galway Hooker did it, and several breweries since. I don't see anyone making cheaper-than-macro a selling point.

&amp;quot;Tube&amp;quot;:3ixvlpbj wrote: Telling them it costs more because it tastes better -- to you -- isn't in my view good enough. I suspect most bar mamagers feel the same as me.[/quote:3ixvlpbj]Absolutely. That's why the selection in pubs in our country is so awful. Guinness, O'Hara's, Sierra Nevada, Cantillon, Lost Abbey: sure it's all just beer and should cost basically the same. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt="" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> Same goes for wine in pubs. As a customer, I'd prefer it if things were otherwise and will do anything I can to change it.