TOPIC:

When you look at the science,beer in a can is better,
when you look at the environment,beer in a can is better,
when you look at the cost,beer in a can is better,
when you look at the customer standing at the off license cabinet,which container is he going to pick up. <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: -->

If he's me, all other things being equal, the can. For the reasons you give. I mean, it'd be daft not to, wouldn't it?

If I'm honest, I wouldn't pay a premium for beer in a can; it would have to be mid priced.

Its hard to maintain a "premium" brand image with cans, I have to admit.

You're not going to get really high levels of carbonation out of a can either, so there's some products that really have to stay in bottles.

As far as I know cans also absolutely require chilling and filtering beer prior to canning. (Any excess sugars and stray yeast lead to exploding cans very quickly.)

Its the larger breweries that can justify the cost investment of canning and produce beer at the lower costs that can probably be gotten from a canned product, but these are the breweries that are going to be shipping their beer further from home and probably should be canning from a CO2 usage perspective. The little guys aren't as likely to be able to can and aren't likely to distribute as far away, so the major green reasons behind canning aren't as strong.


-Playing devil's advocate.

Adam

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:3hbs0b0c wrote: Its hard to maintain a "premium" brand image with cans[/quote:3hbs0b0c]Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't [b:3hbs0b0c]every single[/b:3hbs0b0c] "premium" beer in Ireland sold in cans?

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:3hbs0b0c wrote: You're not going to get really high levels of carbonation out of a can either, so there's some products that really have to stay in bottles. [/quote:3hbs0b0c]Explain, please.

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:3hbs0b0c wrote: (Any excess sugars and stray yeast lead to exploding cans very quickly.) [/quote:3hbs0b0c]So SN are lying when they say "can conditioned"? Or their cans are a safety risk? Either way: naughty SN! (or, you know, you're talking nonsense -- but I know that doesn't happen <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->)

- Devil's advocate's Devil's advocate

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:1l949j37 wrote:

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:1l949j37 wrote: Its hard to maintain a "premium" brand image with cans[/quote:1l949j37]Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't [b:1l949j37]every single[/b:1l949j37] "premium" beer in Ireland sold in cans? [/quote:1l949j37]
Possibly, but I'm not talking about "premium" macro crap that people are willing to pay 2 euro a can for instead of 1 euro and that is essentially the same as non-premium macro crap except for the words printed on the can; I'm talking about premium without the quotes. -There's a large number of people on these boards who have paid 10€ for a premium bottle of beer and been very happy with that purchase, quantity aside, would you feel as confident doing the same thing if that 10€ beer were in a can?
-I'd like to think that I'm only paying for what's IN the container, but I admit that I'd think twice before dropping 10€ on a can of beer.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:1l949j37 wrote:

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:1l949j37 wrote: You're not going to get really high levels of carbonation out of a can either, so there's some products that really have to stay in bottles. [/quote:1l949j37]Explain, please. [/quote:1l949j37] -I'm rolling out the jump to conclusions mat here that cans cannot withstand the same pressures as a thick glass bottle and therefore aren't appropriate for many Belgian styles, for example.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:1l949j37 wrote:

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:1l949j37 wrote: (Any excess sugars and stray yeast lead to exploding cans very quickly.) [/quote:1l949j37]So SN are lying when they say "can conditioned"? Or their cans are a safety risk? Either way: naughty SN! (or, you know, you're talking nonsense -- but I know that doesn't happen <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->) [/quote:1l949j37]

I'm sure all the breweries of SN's gigantic size have the ability to very accurately control yeast cell count and residual sugar levels and can therefore closely control CO2 levels in a can or anything else they tell their brewing robots to spit their beer into. If you can't control those two items very closely, and MANY small craft breweries have shown that they can't at their equipment price points, you can't control packaged CO2 levels when conditioning in the serving container. If you package in a thick glass bottle, like say De Molen, you end up with an ultra fizzy beer that shoot the cork to the ceiling; but what if that same beer is in a can? I don't think there's any chance a can would survive that. -I'd love to hear differently and that there's can tech that can deal with the same pressures as a thick glass bottle, though.




Adam

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:3f8vugzv wrote: would you feel as confident doing the same thing if that 10€ beer were in a can? [/quote:3f8vugzv]Would I pay €10 for a special De Molen stout in a can? Yes. I'm already not paying for their bottle label artwork.

If it was a brewery I knew nothing about I wouldn't be shelling out a tenner regardless of what it was packaged in.

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:3f8vugzv wrote: cans cannot withstand the same pressures as a thick glass bottle and therefore aren't appropriate for many Belgian styles, for example. [/quote:3f8vugzv]Cans can withstand Coca-Cola levels of pressure. Levels of pressure where you can actually [i:3f8vugzv]see the bubbles jumping off the the surface of the liquid[/i:3f8vugzv]. No beer is as carbonated as your typical fizzy soft drink.

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:3f8vugzv wrote: what if that same beer is in a can? I don't think there's any chance a can would survive that. [/quote:3f8vugzv]See above.