TOPIC:

Of course, you're absolutley right, and as it happens I did know it was Bavarian, and wasn't begun to be foisted onto the rest of the German States till 1871 (wasn't that when unification happened?), good old Bismarck (there's a tower erected in his name behind my in-laws house). Still, [i:1wb7pmq8]circa[/i:1wb7pmq8] 100 years as a pan-German law is enough to engrain something into a national psyche and become "tradition". I won't be cruel by suggesting that Germans are prone to bouts of mass psyche engraining <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Regardless of dates, wouldn't you agree that it is so deeply engrained that the average Joe on the Strasse believes it to be the best thing since sliced bread (even if it predates it!)

Will definitely read about the lost styles, and maybe throw it at my friends and relations while I'm there over Christmas <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt="" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: -->

<edit>Ah, these are the ones[/url:1wb7pmq8]? I'd heard of the Cherry beer, and generically about ones using mushrooms and nettles, but that's an interestig list. Do you know if any are being revived? (maybe that's one for another thread)

Thanks for pointing to those links

<answer edit>
[color=olive:2gy8kvl4]Yes, those are the ones. I just noticed he's even missing one at least (Puparsch - and no, that's not a joke).
At least Neuzeller is making a Cherry beer overnew. Their brewmaster is the most vociferous in condemning the straightjacket of the Reinheitsgebot, but I distrust his motives... cheap adjuncts, etc. Some of his colleagues, however, would really like to reintroduce more inventiveness and adventure into German beermaking.

But we've wandered far from EBCU, haven't we?[/color:2gy8kvl4] <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

[b:75vnzu0q]Our biggest achievements'[/b:75vnzu0q]

Well getting different organisations across Europe to work together in harmony "and it's not the drink talking" has been great.
Working to get a written constitution
Successful lobbying at EU level - they will not deal with individual consumer groups since they only recognise a national association e.g Consumers association in UK and frankly they don't give a damn about beer.
Encouraging growth in smaller groups and seeing the growth in craft brewing in Austria and Italy.

Germany
Pure arrogance on their part - also they are so big and each area, Bavaria etc considers itself as a unique and separate entity . But we have slow progress from contacts in various areas. But the basic issue is that the vast majority see no problems in germany. Every time we speak to MEP's they express surprise when told some really basic facts about the German market.

EBCU & the Republic
Laurent has posted some useful comments and if anyone is over in London then I would love to have a chat (and a few pints). CAMRA NI and the Scottish based members of CAMRA's National executive has always been supportive of any efforts and it has often been suggested that a joint meeting could be held over there - but as Laurent has said. GO SLOWLY and CAREFULLY.

Terry

To the achievements Terry mentioned,I'll add the very fact that we manage to exchange and share experiences, informations, contacts.

In short : Networking.

Those are a great inspiration when you're in a small organisation or you're just starting. To give an example : almost half the swiss beer market is in the hands of Carlsberg. To know that our colleagues at DBE have contacts at the very top of Carlsberg is of great use, because when they hold meetings, we can try and have swiss market issues slipped in.
In fact, on our latest meeting in Denmark, we had a session with one of the big cheese of the Carlsberg group, and it was great to have a chance to put Swiss, Polish and British issues with Carlsberg on teh table, right at the top.
And, in my case, to realise the vision Carlsberg have of the Swiss market is off the mark: they only see the eastern, german-speaking lagerland, and did not notice craft beers were a strong force in the western, french-speaking side.

Cheers !

Laurent

I'm seeing a lot of emphasis on dialogue with the industry and with government. In Ireland the biggest challenge for such an advocacy group would be dialogue with the drinkers. If we sat down with Diageo today and said "You should make better beer", they'd say "Ireland doesn't want better beer. We've tried giving them variety, giving them artisan, and they won't drink it. What are we supposed to do?"

Mission 1 of the Platform for Irish Suds Drinkers (for want of a better acronym) would be to raise awareness of Irish craft beers among the public, something we're all doing virally anyway.

Well, if there's ever been a sacred cow in brewing, Reinheitsgebot must be it... <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

&amp;quot;Adeptus&amp;quot;:2gv9k3wf wrote: I'm curious as to what extent things have changed since the [i:2gv9k3wf]Reinheitsgebot [/i:2gv9k3wf]pretty much became a voluntary thing since 1987 (as I understand it), although many breweries are proud to proclaim their beers as being brewed according to the [i:2gv9k3wf]Reinheitsgebot[/i:2gv9k3wf], [/quote:2gv9k3wf]

Well, not quite. The EU decision means that foreign non RG-abiding beers can be sold in Germany.

The principle is still anchored in the current German legislation on beer. To be called beer, a beverage must be made of malt, water, yeast, hops. And that's it ? No, there's exceptions :

- top-fermenting beers can contain brewing sugars (but no unmalted grain)

- Hop extract can be used

- Exceptions can be obtained for beers brewed for export.

Scary, innit ? <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->

&amp;quot;Adeptus&amp;quot;:2gv9k3wf wrote: which is fair enough as it was in force for the best part of 500 years, so is bound to be engrained in the German psyche.
[/quote:2gv9k3wf]

Well, Reinheitsgebot never technically came into force, after its validity expired in 1517 (yup, it was a one-year edict, apparently...)

It was just unearthed as a protectionist measure around 1860, when Bavaria was forced, kicking and screaming, to join the German empire.
In the negotiations, Bavaria managed to have the RG principle integrated in Imperial legislation for the whole of the empire. It took a further 40 years r so to enforce it completely, killing off many beer styles on the way.

So it's not five centuries... more like one... but a big lie thats repeated often enough soon becomes a fact. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

Cheers !

Laurent