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"DEMPSEY":308qeaoz wrote: I think everybody here is not in favor of minimum pricing,me included [/quote:308qeaoz]

I dont necessarily see it as a negative thing, I think there are a number of problems with underage drinking and selling beer for <1 euro a can is not helping matters at all.

When I was a kid fags were 1.50 a box, I would say about 50% of boys tried smoking. Now fags are 7:35 a box, young people smoke but numbers are way lower.

Will it impact kids binge drinking ? - I think it will -the impact maybe small but at least its stopping 'the race to the bottom'

Price does matter - Price does make a difference.

Let me explain about 'the race to the bottom'

In insurance in the UK margins were so tight with online comparision websites that big companies pulled out - direct line doesnt go on these websites. Quinn operated below cost selling (and you know where that led too). It basically let to insurance companies hiring ex-cops to help to not pay out claims. Below cost selling almost buried the bakeries in Ireland, the big chains were below cost selling to 'break' the bakeries into either producing bread for them or go under.
Below cost selling has resulted in slabs of fosters on sale in supermarkets for 20euro, resulted in mass low quality, super low cost beer.

Is this negatively impacting the craft beer market ???

Of course it is, these chains are putting huge downward pressure on the price of beer. This is bad for craft beer, its bad for quality, it is bad for microbreweries and This is real bad for us.

Now forget about who is proposing it and forget about hating politicians and their motiviations - think of craft beer and microbrewiers.

Just my two cents.

&amp;quot;Partridge9&amp;quot;:3i9q1ml0 wrote: I dont necessarily see it as a negative thing, I think there are a number of problems with underage drinking and selling beer for <1 euro a can is not helping matters at all.[/quote:3i9q1ml0]Unrelated issue. Underage drinking is a problem because existing laws are not enforced. Trying to deal with non-enforcement by passing new laws is a really bad policy.

&amp;quot;Partridge9&amp;quot;:3i9q1ml0 wrote: young people smoke but numbers are way lower.[/quote:3i9q1ml0]Yes, but there's way more than price at work with tobacco.

&amp;quot;Partridge9&amp;quot;:3i9q1ml0 wrote: Price does matter - Price does make a difference.[/quote:3i9q1ml0]So how come Irish people buy [i:3i9q1ml0]more[/i:3i9q1ml0] drink when the duty goes up? Surely they would buy [i:3i9q1ml0]less[/i:3i9q1ml0] each time it gets more expensive?

&amp;quot;Partridge9&amp;quot;:3i9q1ml0 wrote: Is this negatively impacting the craft beer market ???

Of course it is[/quote:3i9q1ml0]There are about three times as many craft breweries now as there were in 2003 when the Groceries Order ended. That doesn't sound like craft beer suffering to me.

[i:14gm80p3]Unrelated issue. Underage drinking is a problem because existing laws are not enforced. Trying to deal with non-enforcement by passing new laws is a really bad policy.[/i:14gm80p3]
I'll give you that one, prehaps enforcing laws is more productive that making more laws.

[i:14gm80p3]Yes, but there's way more than price at work with tobacco.
[/i:14gm80p3]

I'll even conceed that one, the negative impact on health and reduction in advertising are factors;

[i:14gm80p3]So how come Irish people buy more drink when the duty goes up? Surely they would buy less each time it gets more expensive?[/i:14gm80p3]

Come on - are you serious - you think price has no impact on beer sales ?? Have you seem the dole queues ???

The fact that more people have setup microbreweries is great - I would argue that these guys have setup in spite of falling beer prices not because of it.

Price does matter, focus on what matters to us, craft beer, craft beer choice and microbrewies.

&amp;quot;Partridge9&amp;quot;:1pgnc1vj wrote: Come on - are you serious - you think price has no impact on beer sales[/quote:1pgnc1vj]I'm just going from what these figures[/url:1pgnc1vj] say. What figures are you using?

My view to the government would be 'you've already tried the 'make alcohol expensive' route and now you are admitting that it did not work'. As I said in a previous thread, the whole minimum pricing lark is only about increasing the tax take.

Last weekend I bought a tray of Mahou in a Spanish supermarket for just over €4. This was 24 cans at 33cl each. This was pretty much the normal price and not a below cost selling point. Now Spain has pretty much the same level as unemployment as Ireland, has the same rich/poor ratio, is in a recession requiring bailout and yet has none of the (alleged) high alcoholism rate. This is made more intriguing when you factor the number of ex-pat English and Irish living there also. So the question here is: What is Spain doing right that Ireland is (supposedly) doing wrong?

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:23p481ky wrote: Unrelated issue. Underage drinking is a problem because existing laws are not enforced. Trying to deal with non-enforcement by passing new laws is a really bad policy.[/quote:23p481ky]
It's not that simple. Abuse of alcohol by under 18s is being facilitated by cheap slabs of piss. I agree, the law is not being enforced, but neither is there any sort of education programme to change the societal relationship with alcohol. "Hey kids, you don't have to get pissed every time you can get your hands on cheap slabs of piss" would be a good place to start.

&amp;quot;Partridge9&amp;quot;:23p481ky wrote: Price does matter - Price does make a difference.[/quote:23p481ky]So how come Irish people buy [i:23p481ky]more[/i:23p481ky] drink when the duty goes up? Surely they would buy [i:23p481ky]less[/i:23p481ky] each time it gets more expensive?

I do think Séan's letter to one of the newspapers (where sales were going up despite duty going up) reflected the other problem we had, where we were delusional about how rich we were. The more expensive something was the more people wanted it. We had more BMW's per capita than Germany, remember!