TOPIC:

"Andrew":2ddartdl wrote:

"Jenky":2ddartdl wrote: Can I throw in another spanner re the apples and cider analogy.............not a single solitary drop of cider produced in Ireland is made from Irish cider apples,that goes for all the macros and other operaters and craft guys like double L.[/quote:2ddartdl]

Are you sure about that- I'm pretty sure David Llewellyn's cider is made from apples from his own orchard. (I'll ask him when I see him on Sunday).[/quote:2ddartdl]

Andrew, I think Jenky's point is that the varietys are not native Irish

One of the best cider apple varities is Dabinett and guess where this came from ? Answer: Not .ie !!

Really we are about to split hairs here as to where do all the Irish ingredients we enjoy originally come from: ( fish/fowl/game/cattle/pigs/apples/trees/flowers are not all native Irish)

If its been grown in Ireland for a few generations then by "Nurture" it is different to its parent ( "Nature" ) (Quote: C. Darwin - a long time ago! )

Hope this helps <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt="" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: -->

Will

Are you sure about that-

Yes Im sure, Davids a friend and Ive sometimes assisted with his cider making, he does use apples from his own orchard but they are the English varieties I was referring to and not the Irish cider apple varieties.

One of the best cider apple varities is Dabinett and guess where this came from ?

Yes,Dabinett is the main ingredient in most Irish ciders not only because of its flavour but also it is one of the easiest cider apple varieties to grow commercially and has the biggest acreage devoted to it in Ireland.

Though it sounds French, its an English variety.
Mark.

&amp;quot;Jenky&amp;quot;:1ctwtpws wrote: Are you sure about that- [quote:1ctwtpws]

Yes Im sure, Davids a friend and Ive sometimes assisted with his cider making, he does use apples from his own orchard but they are the English varieties I was referring to and not the Irish cider apple varieties.[/quote:1ctwtpws][/quote:1ctwtpws]

ah, I was getting the wrong end of the stick. This is one of those 'Irish Smoked Salmon versus Smoked Irish Salmon' issues.

My point about "Nurture" is that after lets say 10 years in David's orchard (just up the road from Malahide) HIS Dabinetts will "possibly" be different to a Dabinett grown in Hereford ( Bulmers country ) or in "Zommerset where the Zider apples grow" used to be Westons cider in that area

Nurture modifies things, hence Welshman living in Malahide has different attitudes/tastes/beers/ than Welshman living in Wales

When it comes to trees, Nature is the genetic hand me down from the parents and is a constant ( ignoring genetic mutations ), Nurture is all about climate, soil, feeding, prunning, rainfall, talking to your trees <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->

Cheers

Will

Your point about nurture is similar to what I think they they call "terroir" in the wine world, referring to the climate, geography and soil of an area where a particular grape variety (lets say pinot noir)originated. I dont know much about wine but I think its generally thought that a pinot noir wine from its original region is superior to one from elsewhere ?

But the unique flavour profile of pinot noir always comes through no matter where it is grown or made, so in that sense our Irish cider is English style/or flavoured ! but its not "original" Irish cider,youd need native Irish apples for that I think.

I had tongue firmly placed in cheek when I said not a drop of cider is made from irish apples and to answer my own original question you only have to ask is a bottle of Australian pinot noir Australian or French.

But it still don't work for Irish Bulldogs <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

My real point is I think it is a shame given that we only have 6 native cider apple varieties left (compared to UK's 300 or more)they are not being used, I have propagated a few of each and will be doing more this winter so thats a start at least I suppose.
Mark.