TOPIC:

HP and Apple don't really make computers; the hard drives are made by one of 3 companies, the video cards and processors are made by 1 or 2 companies, the LCDs are generally made by 3 companies but they're considered to be computer manufacturers. -One example of many, many, many industries that have outsourcing agreements.

The company sets the quality and technical specs and oversees the production of the product even though they may not perform all parts of the production on their own, they control the end product through contracts, setting specifications, and agreeing on components (ingredients in beer). -This is the only way that the "Trappist Breweries" are Trappist breweries today; the monks don't actually brew the beer any more; they're Production Managers who oversee people who are effectively contractors who make the beer to their specifications and select ingredients via contracts with ingredient suppliers.

The Brewing Company is the company that performs the creative act of putting together the ingredients, and processes that make beer and sets all the various standards that make up the beer. I'm not sure that hiring someone else to grow the grain, or hiring an assistant brewer to brew it, or an "assistant fermenter" who's a separate contracted country in another locale really matters to the end product as long as the quality specs and process oversight and control relies with the brewing company.


-I admit that I'm torn on this issue and I'm just playing this thought exercise all the way out to try and make up my own mind. By day I'm involved in looking at the Security in Outsourcing agreements and the processes via which the Outsourcing company can maintain control and I've come to the conclusion that the creative work and "craft" if you will occurs at this level and that if done in the right way, complete control over the product can be accomplished just as if it were all performed in-house, or in-org, or in-country.

-The craft brewer in me wants to physically walk into a facility and meet the person who put there hands in it all and who personally owns every step of production from beginning to end.


I have two minds about this and I'm hoping you'll jerk me back to my craft brewing senses, John.


Adam

I think what the Downpatrick lads are doing is very clever. It's a logistics and production-friendly way of side-stepping inconvenient excise laws.

"Biertourist":1fo1a4n1 wrote: I'm not sure that hiring someone else to grow the grain, or hiring an assistant brewer to brew it, or an "assistant fermenter" who's a separate contracted country in another locale really matters to the end product[/quote:1fo1a4n1]You're quite right, but craft isn't just about the end product. In fact you can and do have tanker-loads of craft beer that's shite. To a big extent, craft is about the process. A major thing the craft principle has going for it is local entrpreneurship and local employment. Once you've stopped actually making the thing you sell, it stops being local and craft. IMO.

"TheBeerNut":1z6cfpg1 wrote: Once you've stopped actually making the thing you sell, it stops being local and craft. IMO.[/quote:1z6cfpg1]

Right, but last I checked you're arguing that the act of fermenting wort into beer is the single step of the process that cannot be outsourced off of this island if you're going to make it onto the Beoir list of Craft Breweries in Ireland.

Mashing and boiling, the addition of hops, can all be outsourced off-island still in that definition. -I'm unclear on why the line is drawn there.



Adam

"Biertourist":y62005fy wrote: Mashing and boiling, the addition of hops, can all be outsourced off-island. -I'm unclear on why the line is drawn there. [/quote:y62005fy]A company operating this model would need to be a fully licensed excise-paying beer brewery. Making beer. The turning of things that aren't beer into beer is where the line is.

I think Adam's point is they make the wort and the end product is beer with their name on it. A step in the middle isn't done locally.