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"KeeganAles":e4s8xdp1 wrote: Anything more inclusive ceases to be useful as a term, imho.[/quote:e4s8xdp1]That's fair enough, but it's a big step to then try and sculpt the term to suit your needs. Basically it is not your place to "accept" whether something is an IPA or not. You are not the doorman at Club IPA (est. 1835).

"KeeganAles":e4s8xdp1 wrote: I like these beers called IPAs. What characteristics do they have that makes me like them?[/quote:e4s8xdp1]Sure, same thing: an early, narrow, association between strong hoppy beer and the term IPA.

"KeeganAles":e4s8xdp1 wrote: Impossible! Beer Geek could encounter a tame beer *called* IPA...
You can call a cloudy day sunshine, too; it's still not gonna give me a tan.[/quote:e4s8xdp1]How about someone raised in a Greene King pub? What makes their youthful experience of IPA less valid than someone raised on stronger, hoppier IPAs?

"KeeganAles":e4s8xdp1 wrote: We all at least agree there's a difference between American and English IPAs - that's what started this thread. [/quote:e4s8xdp1]I can think of several styles with variations like this, but only IPA creates discussions like this.

"KeeganAles":e4s8xdp1 wrote: Let me ask this: How is Greene King IPA different from a session bitter of similar strength?[/quote:e4s8xdp1]It isn't. Why should it be? Modern brewmasters tend to sit down and design their portfolios to cover a range of styles, meeting a range of customer needs for colour, strength, bitterness etc. But older English breweries didn't. They had tied houses: they didn't need to. If they wanted to call their session bitter "IPA", as more than Greene King did, there's no rule stopping them. And if it bothers some of the punters then that's the punters' problem. Now do you want a pint or not?

There is a lot of beer geekery going on in this thread <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

As far as beer called "IPA" whose origin is America, I have to whole heartedly agree with Goose Island IPA and also Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA (both can be found in Redmonds in Ranelaugh). Victory Hop Devil and Smuttynose are pretty nice, too.

If you're opening the field to American Double IPAs (there's going to be more residual sweetness), there's some really great options. Avery Majaharaja jumps to the top of my list but there's a TON of residual sweetness there. Russian River's Pliny-the-Elder is in a class of it's own with >100 IBUs and 3 dry hop additions; it also has the residual sweetness undercontrol. Stone's Ruination IPA is great.

In my "second tier" I'll add 3 Floyd's Dreadnaught, Bear Republic's Racer 5 IPA, Lagunitas Hop Stoopid, Moyland's Hopsicle, Hoppin Frog's (Ohio) Mean Manalishi, & Port Brewing's Hop 15.


As far as English IPAs... I'll stick with what I know and leave this to others. I REALLY didn't like Greene King and I also didn't care for Marston's Old Empire. I haven't found an English beer labeled "IPA" that I've cared for yet, to be honest. When I want a stronger, hoppy beer I seek out hoppy English "Strong ales" (Maximus Strong Ale is DELICOUS), or I look to Brakspear (the Brakspear "English Pale Ale" is delicious; I don't care what you call it!) or Fullers. -I found "Evolution Derbyshire Golden" from Blue Monkey Brewing Company on cask in Reading and really liked it but it seems that they don't bottle... ;(


Adam

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:3ovnfwpe wrote: If you're opening the field to American Double IPAs [/quote:3ovnfwpe]
Speaking of which, where does Porterhouse's Hop Head fit in? This is currently my favourite beer, even surpassing GH!

Is it still on tap in the PH? I've only had bottles.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:20kunq6m wrote: That's fair enough, but it's a big step to then try and sculpt the term to suit your needs. Basically it is not your place to "accept" whether something is an IPA or not. You are not the doorman at Club IPA (est. 1835).[/quote:20kunq6m]
Not me, personally. For most beer drinkers, magazines, blogs, etc. IPA means "big hoppy pale ale". And common usage makes the definition of a term, historically accurate or not.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:20kunq6m wrote: How about someone raised in a Greene King pub? What makes their youthful experience of IPA less valid than someone raised on stronger, hoppier IPAs?[/quote:20kunq6m]
Commonality, again. If they're only person who thinks that, what good does that do anyone else?

&amp;quot;KeeganAles&amp;quot;:20kunq6m wrote: Let me ask this: How is Greene King IPA different from a session bitter of similar strength?[/quote:20kunq6m]

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:20kunq6m wrote: It isn't. [/quote:20kunq6m]
OK, that just ended this discussion for me.

So, from now on, when anybody asks, I'll be sure to say that English IPAs cleave into 2 varieties:
- a range of strong, hoppy ales inspired by 19th C recipes or otherwise similar to American IPAs but generally with English hops
- a handful of weak ales that are *identical to your average session bitter for most purposes* yet continue to be labeled as "IPA" for obscure historical reasons that most people aren't aware of

Make mine a Bitter & Twisted!

I would put hop head in the same category as Hooker. An American style IPA or APA. I prefer hooker myself but can't get that in bottles.