TOPIC:

"TheBeerNut":1wlhn023 wrote:

"sbillings":1wlhn023 wrote: I agree that parents should have the right to introduce alcohol to their children in a controlled environment, but I think that environment should be the home.[/quote:1wlhn023]I totally agree, but how do you legislate for that?[/quote:1wlhn023]

This is already covered. I cannot find the exact piece of legislation now, but from <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="www.citizensinformation.ie">www.citizensinformation.ie it says:

[quote:1wlhn023]It is also an offence to buy alcohol for people under the age of 18 or to give alcohol to anyone under the age of 18 unless in a domestic home.[/quote:1wlhn023]

and:

[quote:1wlhn023]If you are under 18, you cannot legally buy alcohol or drink it unless you are in a private residence and have permission to be there.[/quote:1wlhn023]

A great many of the above suggestions could be put to good use, but a change in attitude is ultimatley going to make the difference. I'm sorry to bash on about the cultural problems we clearly have because it is by no means easy to change them. I am two summers shy of my 30th birthday, and hopefully not over the hill just yet, but I am made feel positively geriatric by the younger people I work with who regale me with stories of the heroic amount of alcohol they counsumed of a weekend.

Would it be possible for the government to develop a campaign to let these people know that this type of behaviour is not big and not very clever, but without it being the naff sort of campaign that usually serves to alienate young people when middle agers attempt to relate to them.

In the current climate making alcohol, even at low strengths, more readily available could be disasterous.

[b:1d9t4rc6]Hendrixcat[/b:1d9t4rc6]

I agree. Changing attitudes to alcohol is the only way to actually tackle the problem and this is what we should be pointing out at the same time as pointing out that the current approach just doesn't work. The more people we can get that message to, the more likely that there will be the political will to make effective changes in the future.

Education is key and I think there have been some positive steps in this direction already. The “Know the one that's one too many” adds are on the right track, as is [url:1d9t4rc6]http://www.drinkaware.ie/[/url:1d9t4rc6]

How would you educate children about alcohol and at what age would you start?


[b:1d9t4rc6]TheBeerNut[/b:1d9t4rc6]

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:1d9t4rc6 wrote: Not issuing more late licenses, but allowing the holders of such licences to choose their closing time. That's what they have in the UK, isn't it?[/quote:1d9t4rc6]
I like the idea. Has anyone got any notion of how this is going over there? Facts and figures would be good.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:1d9t4rc6 wrote: A simple licence of unlimited quantity which is really just to ensure responsible behaviour by the shopkeeper. Normal hours would apply. Anyone running a convenience store would be able to stock low-alcohol products.[/quote:1d9t4rc6]

Ok. but surly they could have a wine licence too to allow them to sell wine and alcopops?

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:1d9t4rc6 wrote: I've seen loads of low-budget fruit beers marketed at this crowd die. Anybody remember blackcurrent Clear Beer? No, of course you don't.[/quote:1d9t4rc6] They may not have been able to compete with the established alcopops, but that doesn't meant that they couldn't succeed if the alcopops were not there.

If you take away their WKD blue they will transfer to whatever is the closest thing. If that's a long necked bottle of sweet fruit beer, or a wine mixed with fruit juice, or whatever the clever chaps in the drinks industry come up with to get past the letter of the law, that won't matter, they will transfer to another drink, they will not stop drinking.


[b:1d9t4rc6]TheBeerNut & mikewest[/b:1d9t4rc6]

Any lowering of the alcohol drinking age would be a very hard sell. The global trend is in the opposite direction with Germany, for example, raising the age for beer and wine from 16 to 18 a few years ago. The way a lot of people will see this is that we have 16 year old getting drink as it is, if you let this sort of thing happen it will just make it easier for even younger kids to get alcohol, as the 16 year olds will buy it for them.

Another thing to consider is enforcement of current legislation. I would be in favour of stricter enforcement of the under-age drinking laws that we have. Supplying drink to someone under-age is a crime and it should be investigated as such. If a teenager is found with drink, the Garda should find out where they got it. Unless the little scamp stole it from daddy's drinks cabinet, an adult gave it to them. That person should be prosecuted and heavily fined. If they are a license holder, they should loose their license too. An add campaign to drive this home to people would, I would imagine be quite effective in restricting the supply of booze to under-age drinkers. If a 16 year old can legally buy alcohol, however, this becomes more difficult to do, as the “Adult” you end up prosecuting could be only 16.

&amp;quot;sbillings&amp;quot;:394rabuz wrote: but surly they could have a wine licence too to allow them to sell wine and alcopops?[/quote:394rabuz]Sure. But not to under 18s.

&amp;quot;sbillings&amp;quot;:394rabuz wrote: They may not have been able to compete with the established alcopops, but that doesn't meant that they couldn't succeed if the alcopops were not there.[/quote:394rabuz]This was before alcopops existed. Clear Beer, in blackcurrent and lime flavours IIRC, was sold in a bar I worked in in 1994. Briefly.

&amp;quot;sbillings&amp;quot;:394rabuz wrote: they will not stop drinking.[/quote:394rabuz]No, and this strategy isn't meant to do that. It's to make alcohol not seem like a soft drink. Some investigation into the legal definition of a "sweet" would probably help at this point.

&amp;quot;sbillings&amp;quot;:394rabuz wrote: Another thing to consider is enforcement of current legislation.[/quote:394rabuz]Doesn't this fall under stuff that's (supposed to be) already happening? The vintners and Gardaí would tell you it is, and they should know.

[quote:qjphas78]How would you educate children about alcohol and at what age would you start? [/quote:qjphas78]

This is a difficult question because if we attempt to explain to children what alcohol is and the effect it has, unless we lie to them, we cannot hide the notion that consuming alcohol is [i:qjphas78]pleasant[/i:qjphas78].

While we can warn them of the ill effects of over indulgence it is hypocritical not to tell them it can be a nice experience in moderation. At which point they might legitimatley say, alright then, just give me a little bit of it, and I'll experience the pleasant effects. Should we say no to this? Aside from the potential medical problems that alcohol can wreak on a developing body, the idea of giving alcohol to children just doesn't sit right with me.

It's possible that giving children small amounts of alcohol may acheive the paradigm shift I referred to, but I'm not certain it is the right way about doing it.

&amp;quot;Hendrixcat&amp;quot;:19jm8cop wrote: It's possible that giving children small amounts of alcohol may acheive the paradigm shift I referred to, but I'm not certain it is the right way about doing it.[/quote:19jm8cop]You're probably right and, as Séan said, this cultural issue is best handled in the home. In terms of government policy it leaves two options: a state-wide brainwashing programme or fortifying flour with common f**king sense.