TOPIC:

I doubt banning alcopops will have any long term effect. Many of the alcopops drinkers are already migrating to the likes of Kopparberg "cider" which is pretty much the same thing.

[quote:3qembqrp] The global trend is in the opposite direction with Germany, for example, raising the age for beer and wine from 16 to 18 a few years ago[/quote:3qembqrp]

The trend tOwards binge drinking is not a uniquely Irish phenomenon but the solutions always being put forward are the same restrict, restrict, restrict. The need in Ireland and worldwide is to change the emphasis from alcohol being for pissups but instead something that can be enjoyed in moderation.

TheBeerNut
[quote:3qembqrp]some of the heaviest binge drinkers I know from my age group were raised by Pioneers[/quote:3qembqrp]
I should know, I was. There was a terrible attidue to alcohol in my house when I was growing up i.e. alcohol is the root of all evil etc. and the first thing I wanted to do was get a drink and get drunk. I was a stupid fool as far as alcohol was concerned until I lived in Belgium with its different licencing laws and my attitude had to change or I was heading for big trouble. I used to have young lad working for me evenings and weekends and there was a youth disco on so I was joking with him about him and his mates getting cans and drinking in a field before it. He said he wouldn't because there was planty of beer at home in the fridge and if ever him or his brother wanted one they could have it. If there was a match on on telly they would sit down with their father and have a can watching the match but he had no interest in going on a binge with the lads. He was about seventeen at the time and of all the young lads that worked for me at that time him and his brother were the only ones who could drink at home and the only ones who usen't to go on benders regularly. The attidude has to be changed early and in the family enviroment. The consumption of alcohol has to be connected to relaxed enjoyment i.e. family meals, special occasions etc. and not benders before the kids disco. I made the above proposals to encourage this while limiting access to the higher strength alcohol products which cause the greater social problems. Vodka and redbull is not in the same category as pints of Guinness or glasses of red wine and treating them both the same is not the correct approach. There needs to be a differentiation between the different alcohol categories and also the method and place of their consumption from a legal perspective.

I would propose a moving of the goalposts on the legal age for drinking both up and down depending on what you are drinking and where you are drinking it

They can't fortify flour with folic acid just how do you think they will manage common sense

"TheBeerNut":1nghkcq1 wrote: This was before alcopops existed. Clear Beer, in blackcurrent and lime flavours IIRC, was sold in a bar I worked in in 1994. Briefly.[/quote:1nghkcq1]

But, now they know how to maket them. Don't call it clear beer, call it "Blackcurrent Kiss" and don't tell anyone but Customs and Excise what's in it.

"TheBeerNut":1nghkcq1 wrote: Some investigation into the legal definition of a "sweet" would probably help at this point.[/quote:1nghkcq1]

From C&E:

Made Wine (Sweets) means any liquor exceeding 1.2% vol. but not exceeding 22% vol. obtained from the alcoholic fermentation of any substance or by mixing a liquor so obtained or derived from a liquor so obtained with any other liquor or substance but does not include beer, wine, grape must in fermentation or with fermentation arrested otherwise than by the addition of alcohol, cider, perry or spirits and any reference in the Customs Acts or any instrument relating to customs and made under statute or in the statutes which relate to the duties of excise and the management of those duties or any instrument relating to the duties of excise and the management of those duties made under statute to “Irish wine” or “sweets” shall be construed as reference to “made wine” (S.I. No. 394 of 1992)..

Mixtures containing intoxicating liquor.

Articles which are principally wine with the addition of ingredients for medical or flavouring purposes, for example, “Vino Vermouth” , may be sold under a licence to sell wine.
Spirits mixed with the juice of fruits are not regarded as sweets, but may only be sold under a licence to sell spirits.
Home Made wine mixed with more than 15% of foreign wine cannot legally be sold (Statutory Rules and Orders, 1912, No. 1715, rule 3).
Home Made wine mixed with spirits otherwise than for the sole purposes of fortifying the wine may be sold only under a licence to sell spirits.

"TheBeerNut":1nghkcq1 wrote:

"Sbillings":1nghkcq1 wrote: Another thing to consider is enforcement of current legislation.[/quote:1nghkcq1]
Doesn't this fall under stuff that's (supposed to be) already happening? The vintners and Gardaí would tell you it is, and they should know.[/quote:1nghkcq1]

Well, then they should inform people of the penalties and how many people have been prosecuted in the last year. We need to deter the adults who facilitate under-age drinking.

"Hendrixcat":2iplx83w wrote: This is a difficult question because if we attempt to explain to children what alcohol is and the effect it has, unless we lie to them, we cannot hide the notion that consuming alcohol is [i:2iplx83w]pleasant[/i:2iplx83w].

[/quote:2iplx83w]

This is the crux. Why do we have to lie to children about alcohol? This is what is happening, and we, as adults, are creating (or at least keeping alive the notion of) the mystique; the forbidden fruit, if you will. For educating from parent to child to work, like in other countries, you have to be completely honest. Yes, taken in moderation, alcohol is very pleasant.
Adults need to get over this hurdle first. How can we expect our children to be open and honest about alcohol consumption when we can't.
I'm speaking generally here, and not specifically towards HC, and I acknowledge that it's often the case that we are only passing on the way it was thought to us as children, but if we're talking about a shift in society, this is where it really begins; not in some legislation, but in the home.



(edit for typo)

*TheIdiotBeerNut* Arrgh!, Séan I accidentally wiped this post by hitting edit instead of quote. I'm really sorry. Help!*/TheidiotBeerNut*

"sbillings":1e091uww wrote: The “Know the one that's one too many” adds are on the right track, as is [url:1e091uww]http://www.drinkaware.ie/[/url:1e091uww]

[/quote:1e091uww]

Unfortunately, unless people have already heard that growing up, say from responsible parents etc, I'm not sure it'll hit home. Although it's a start, I admit. But - and this is no joke - I heard/overheard some young one (not that young like, early 20s) responding to that saying "Sure, just drink that one first".