TOPIC:

There are, as I see it, two schools of thought on the awards format:

Either we give awards in [b:1qnjwnoi]particular categories[/b:1qnjwnoi], similar to, or expanded from, last year[/url:1qnjwnoi]; or we judge [b:1qnjwnoi]all beers together[/b:1qnjwnoi] and elect a winner and runners-up, regardless of their individual styles.

Further discussion of the merits of both can be found in the general awards thread[/url:1qnjwnoi].

To give us time to organise the methodology of the chosen format, polling will close in two weeks, on Friday 7th March.

hey can i vote twice <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt="" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Ger and Rebel discussed the above again. What we suggested at the Munster Meeting was that we run do a competition amongst ourselves (Munster members and members from afar who would be at the festival) for the best beers of the festival. To do this we feel each beer would have to be sampled to give each beer and brewer a fair chance. Otherwise people are making their judgements on previous experiences / opinions. It would appear from the ICB proposed option not all beers would be sampled. It would be impossible for one member to sample all beers and if left to each member to give their best and second best beers etc. it would mean some beers would not be sampled which would not be fair to all brewers and all beers.

Since then on this site the issue seems to have rolled on to an ICB National Awards. That was not our intention as national awards should, we feel, be based on people’s experiences over a whole year. and not on a single festival as all craft beers in the country may not be available at the Festival. . Obviously if ICB nationally wish to run an national awards as is indicated from the Well Festival that it its prerogative. We simply felt we would do an awards from the Festival, get as many members as possible involved, give each beer a chance, have a winner in each category and then an overall winner by majority voting. . As said it was not a national competition or awards we had suggested.

We would think judging national awards on one day’s sampling, so early in the year does not give justice to the status of National award winners.


Ger

&amp;quot;Ger Cork&amp;quot;:2lfnrv3p wrote: Ger and Rebel suggested at the Munster Meeting was that we run a competition amongst ourselves (Munster members and [u:2lfnrv3p]members from afar who would be at the festival[/u:2lfnrv3p]) for the best beers of the festival.[/quote:2lfnrv3p]

Surely you mean ICB members?

I think what was suggested in an earlier post was that judges select (or beers are selected for them) just a few beers each to taste and judge upon. With a standard grading system in place each beer can be judged upon its own merits. Once the judge has sampled his/her allotted beers and completed the necessary points allocation then that person is free to enjoy the rest of the festival beers. They will of course not be entitled to judge any other beers outside those agreed upon earlier.

Points are tallied among the various judges and a winner is determined.

Another idea is to make the judging a little more subjective by introducing a 'lucky dip' scenario where judges select a range of three festival beers from a hat. They tell no-one what they are a judge of and then are less likely to become influenced by 'the roaming pack' of judges of a particular selection. Before you think this is gimmicky and deceitful, don't bother. It's a bit fun and perhaps a more honest and subjective approach to determining the 'Best Beer of the Festival'.

I also think that there is no room for another 'Best Beer' award. If the focus of 'Best Beer' is on one particular festival then that is where the power of it lies. If the Franciscan Brewery tire of an award being presented at their festival then the award can be brought elsewhere with minimum of disruption to its perceived prestige.

Penny for your thoughts?

.

I think that if it's an "ICB Award", then it should be national. Indeed, the whole idea that stemmed from last year is that an ICB Best Beer award would have to be national. It just happened the way it did last year and got legs of its own. Not long after a few of us met and we discussed the potential for an online voting system that would be totted up over the course of a year, then yielding a result at a pre-determined time. It's workable, and voting would be secret (no results viewable during the year). As it happens, this never went any further ([i:1ug5le2j]mea culpa[/i:1ug5le2j]), so we are where we are now untill a final decision is made.

However, I can also see the value and practicality, and most especially fun, of having a vote/tasting etc at a festival, and using this as a springboard. My only concern about this was "crashing" a festival. That and the fact that not every Irish Craft Beer is represented at it. In this latter case, the year long count would make more sense.

If an award is created for Best Beer of Festival X, then would we not need to do it for every festival? Why single out one (I know, I know, there aren't exactly dozens <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->)? I would leave a best of festival award to the festival organisers. As a group we are across the island, so our award should reflect that.

Don't forget that the whole idea of this, and indeed one of the purposes of this site, is to try to promote quality indigenous beers. In fairness, we're not a big player, but it's still something. Unless the year long count is used, then oppertunities like a festival where members (I'm saying members, not judges, but if a smaller group were designated, then it would be a "proper" judging panel) can give opinions, which are then somehow mashed together to produce an overall winner, then fair enough. First and foremost, the award should represent the view of the membership, which in itself suggests a wider platfrom is needed:
[img:1ug5le2j]http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff91/IrishCraftBrewer/Adeptus/Awards%202007/best_beer_2007.jpg[/img:1ug5le2j]

This is one of those topics that should be in a members only forum <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Edit: This reply was before I read Ichiban's post, so I'll read that now <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

I like the idea of the assigned tastings, roaming packs, and the wild card judges. It would mean not everyone has to taste everything, but everything gets tasted. If anyone is good at statistics can they work out how normal the distribution would be for a given population of beers and tasters? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

I agree that a national ICB awards, totted up online through the site is the way to go. [i:1pw5xizw]However[/i:1pw5xizw] I still think that, for now, we should stick to the association with this year's Franciscan Well Easterfest, and only judge beers presented there.

As a caveat, I should add in that there's a distinct possibility that any winner(s) will not want the award. Many brewers are sceptical to the point of hostile to groups like ours. It's something to consider when we're further into discussing the mechanics of the awarding, but I think it's worth noting at this point.

Anyway. My suggested model was that everyone try as many beers as they can and pick their favourite. Everything may not get tasted, but it is possible to adjust the numbers to give a fairer result, going some way to address Ger's concern. I envisage lots of milling around and "What's that? Can I've a sip?" which is my normal behaviour at beer festivals anyway. For reference purposes, the normal measure for judging a beer at competitions in the US is 30-60ml (1-2oz).

That said, I do quite like Ichiban's lucky dip model of meeting and dividing all beers among the judges randomly -- there's really no point letting people pick favourites -- so that as many beers are tried by as many people as numbers will allow.

Fundamentally, there is no point in allowing judges choose what beers or what styles they wish to judge. That will prejudice the results before the first mouthful is even swallowed.