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18 years 3 months ago #49

Great idea TBN. Not sure if it'll do any good, but not expressing our views certainly isn't going to change anything. Good job on the text too .

Can we work in a challenge to the idea that a reduction in per capita consumption means a reduction in problem drinking? I mean it's the same logic as trying to tackle dangerous driving by increasing the cost of petrol.

Citation as requested by TBN: HSE calls for tax rise on alcohol[/url:399q5ptk]

"Poc":399q5ptk wrote: But I'd imagine there are several studies out there that can back up the claim. I'd hardly argue with someone who said that if you jacked up a pint to €30, consumption wouldn't decrease. It's essentially a factor of disposable income rather than price tbh. So reducing the population to indentured slaves would dramatically cut alcohol consumption.[/quote:399q5ptk]

I wonder how well they stand up to scrutiny, though. Everyone, myself included, has always assumed that they say what people say they do, but the document from the HSE is one such study and that is where we go the information which proves the opposite.

Raising the price of a pint to €30 would certainly make the statistics look better, as they are based on the sale of taxable alcohol in the state. Of course the statistics for off sales in Northern Ireland would change significantly, but that's nothing to do with us, right?

18 years 3 months ago #50

I probably should have mentioned that I would be happy to sign the submission on behalf of the members, but I'm not sure we are ready to do a press release just yet. I think that would be the action of a more formal group than we have here.

18 years 3 months ago #51

"sbillings":j3kz8ojf wrote: Can we work in a challenge to the idea that a reduction in per capita consumption means a reduction in problem drinking? I mean it's the same logic as trying to tackle dangerous driving by increasing the cost of petrol.

Citation as requested by TBN: HSE calls for tax rise on alcohol[/url:j3kz8ojf][/quote:j3kz8ojf]
Thank you. The original HSE press release is here[/url:j3kz8ojf]. Dunno how I missed that. I mean it's not like a State body would have a badly organised web site...

I'll rework the text and post a second draft.

18 years 3 months ago #52

Ta-daa!

[quote:1pyipxpo]Dr Gordon Holmes,
Chair, Government Alcohol Advisory Group,
5th Floor,
Block 1,
Irish Life Centre,
Lower Abbey Street,
Dublin 1.

[b:1pyipxpo]Re: Call for Submissions[/b:1pyipxpo]

Dear Dr Holmes,

Irish Craft Brewer is an Internet community of beer enthusiasts. The group was founded in March 2007 and is based around the web site IrishCraftBrewer.com. At time of writing there are 135 registered members, mainly in Ireland. One of the group's primary aims is to encourage greater choice and higher quality in the Irish beer market.

We fully recognise the problems in Irish society caused by the abuse of alcohol. However, we believe that the problem is ultimately a cultural one, and that there are no quick and easy solutions. Engendering personal responsibility and a healthy respect for alcohol is the only strategy capable of successfully tackling this problem.

In particular, we refute that there is any direct connection between the raising of alcohol duty and a decrease in alcohol-related social problems. In its report [i:1pyipxpo]Alcohol Consumption in Ireland 1986 - 2006[/i:1pyipxpo] *, the Health Services Executive correlates changes in the amount of alcohol consumed in Ireland with increases in alcohol duty. Dr Joe Barry of the Executive used this data to argue that "a raise in excise duty remains an effective measure to reduce alcohol related harm in this country"**. However, this argument is not borne out by the figures presented. The table in Appendix 2 (p.7) of the report shows that decreases in consumption happened in 1987, 1993 and 2005 without an increase in excise, and that the 1989 increase in excise duty coincided with a significant [i:1pyipxpo]increase[/i:1pyipxpo] in alcohol consumed. Furthermore, it is false to assume that a simple increase in alcohol consumed equates to an increase in problem drinking. Additionally, the impact of higher duty is certain to have a negative effect on the fragile Irish craft brewing industry, many of whose practitioners depend on the special excise rates for microbreweries introduced by section 63 of the Finance Act 2005. For these reasons, we strongly believe that an increase in the cost of alcohol is not the answer, and would be the equivalent of trying to reduce the number of road accidents by increasing the cost of motor fuel.

In our opinion the current licensing system, of large high-density bars and simultaneous closing times, is a major causative factor in the social problems associated with excessive drinking. The café-bar licences considered by the previous Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform would, we believe, have had a strongly positive influence on the Irish attitude to alcohol. The continental model of drinking is one which ought to be encouraged, and further restrictions can only help to exacerbate the problem. We note with dismay how busy the off trade is on the day before Good Friday each year: this panic buying followed by binge drinking is illustrative of the effect that restrictive licensing has on the Irish drinking public.

Irish Craft Brewer implores the Group to avoid the temptation of knee-jerk quick-fix policies, or any strategy which has been tried in the past and failed. Altering the unhealthy perception of alcohol as solely a means of intoxication should be the main thrust of this campaign. We believe that those parts of continental European society where alcohol laws are more liberal offer the best role model for Ireland. Tighter controls on the sale of alcohol can only move us further from our goal.

Yours sincerely,


Séan Billings
Editor, Irish Craft Brewer
<!-- e --><a href="This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.">This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

*http://www.hse.ie/en/Publications/HSEPublicationsNew/AlcoholConsumptioninIreland/FiletoUpload,8923,en.pdf
**http://www.hse.ie/en/NewsEvents/News/title,8924,en.html
[/quote:1pyipxpo]

Anything else?

18 years 3 months ago #53

That’s some nice work

18 years 3 months ago #54

&amp;quot;DrJohn&amp;quot;:1spe43lu wrote: Would it be worthwhile adding that we support the reduced excise on "craft breweries/microbreweries" as per Minister Cowan?
John[/quote:1spe43lu]

Do you want to mention Cowan by name?

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