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18 years 3 months ago #13

A bit of an open ended question; what would an ICB submission to the Minister look like?

Bearing in mind that the usual VIs are invariably opposed to anything that will upset the status quo. Generally the counter argument basically runs along the lines of: all the current laws are in place to limit the amount of alcohol available and to stop binge drinking and if you change that, the binge drinking and social disorder will go up.

18 years 3 months ago #14

You are never going to persuade the government to rescind any of the idiotic laws in question, regardless of the fact that they can be shown to be ineffective and, while the counter argument you have proffered would be the given reason, the real reason would be that the current situation suits both the government and the publicans very well indeed, gaining them both lots of cash.

Having said that, the argument I would be inclined to put forward would not be to remove the laws in question, as they simply will not do that, but simply for our government to accept that binge drinking is a cultural issue, so any solution to it would have to be long term, as you cannot change a culture over night.

Such a long term approach, like the one Hendrixcat suggested, is the only one with any chance of succeeding, but long term solutions don't make political sense in a system run by people who only think as far as the next election.

Solutions always have to be arrived at “as a matter of urgency”, whether they work or not.

18 years 3 months ago #15

Absolutely, Séan. And as far as I can see the only initiative proposed so far that could have started the ball rolling on the cultural shift needed was the café bar licences.

Fact is, publicans need people to cram into their premises and stay there drinking lots. Any plan which attempts to make this scenario less likely is doomed to failure, and that includes opening up the licence market which is one of the root causes.

I think the possibility of a ban on advertising, particularly sports sponsorship, would be a major step in addressing the education side of it which Hendrixcat mentioned. Unfortunately, until the UK have something similar it won't have much of an effect, but it still seems to me like an obvious place to start.

18 years 3 months ago #16

[quote:7faia3kw]what would an ICB submission to the Minister look like?[/quote:7faia3kw]
[size=200:7faia3kw]Prohibition[/size:7faia3kw]
(so we can make a fortune bootlegging our beer) <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->



[i:7faia3kw]Sorry – (there is always one.)[/i:7faia3kw] <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

18 years 3 months ago #17

&amp;quot;sbillings&amp;quot;:bznpqmb0 wrote: You are never going to persuade the government to rescind any of the idiotic laws in question[/quote:bznpqmb0]
That's probably true, but there's no point in second guessing what they're going to do.

Would it not be better to answer the original question as "what would be best option" as opposed to "what would be more likely outcome"?

18 years 3 months ago #18

"What would be the best option"? Very difficult to answer of course but here is what I think.

Binge drinking is socially irresponsible. We all know this. In the comfort of your home you can binge all you want. It becomes a problem when you step outside and inflict your presence and state of mind on others.

Those that do binge and find themselves foolishly drunk on the streets give all drinkers a bad name. The level of drunkeness can range from just the pure embarrassing to the most seriously violent.

So how to combat it? My suggestion is to build 'social hubs' out of the city centre. For Dublin, build six to start with in various suburbs. Consider these hubs to be shopping centre like areas with sections for restaurants, bars, clubs, bowling halls and pool/snooker halls to cater for all tastes. With something for everyone this hub takes the strain off the city centre in many regards. Less people on the street, less lines of people waiting for food and taxis, less potential for trouble, less policing required.

Of course won't the problems of binge drinking be simply pushed away from the city centre? Yes, but these problems will become much more diluted. The problems arise originally when the whole city finds themselves on the street at the same time in the early hours. Some people have had a good night and are on their way home. Others have had a bad night and are determined to give someone a bad night too. Binge drinking occurs because people have only a finite amount of time in which to drink and they do as much as possible before closing time. Come closing time, everyone spills onto the street.

Back to the idea of the 'social hub'. This hub can be organised and managed by a central office, a bit like a management company. It can stagger the closing time of the various independent establishments within its supervision. With people going home at different times this alleviates immediate social tension while the taxis and buses that service the hub have more time to get people to and from home without long queues developing.

With one 24 hour bar/club at each hub this would have the result of attracting the hard core drinkers and also the real messy Saturday night punters, the professional binge drinkers, and the ones you don't even make eye contact with while walking down the street. This bar would require extra policing of course, but at least the Gardai are in the right place at the right time.
With somewhere for the heavy drinkers to continue their revelry the streets have lost their most potentially dangerous and threatening element and so can be more easily enjoyed by those who are simply out for a good time, the couples, the families, the tourists, the groups of friends, and the movers and shakers.

To build such hubs sounds crazy. Who would finance it? Who would go? Why would they go? Well, as Dublin grows so must its infrastuture and the sophistication of its urban planning. In the future this will surely centre around organised urban centres such as those in Tallaght and the one planned for Swords (there are others no doubt in the pipeline).
Develop these 'social hubs' into the National Development Plan; open the pub license market for people wanting to open bars and clubs in these hubs; reduce tax on alcohol to promote competition in the market (people wouldn't neck as much alcohol at home before going out if it were cheap to buy in the bar); and promote a sense of community within each urban centre. People would soon forget the city centre problems, out for a night but just 15 minutes from home.

That's how I see it. Like I said though, there's no easy solution.
On a personal note I'd like to suggest an independant microbrewery for each hub, to further promote community spirit!

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