TOPIC:

Yep, still there at the bar on the mezzanine between the first and second floors (if you get what I mean).

Chemicals might be overstated, I think most of what Adam is talking about would be extracts like sinamar and brewers caramel and hop extracts . I'm not so convinced it's nastier than what the big guys have done for years. That doesn't mean I'm a fan of the concept. The tannen zaepfle in MichaelJohns avatar is one of the best pils I've tasted and uses hopfenextrakt or hop extract.

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While we are on the subject of tecnological breakthroughs in beer, I came across this a few days ago;

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.snpubs.co.uk/news/562778-foster-s-pourtal">www.snpubs.co.uk/news/562778-foster-s-pourtal

So now it's the 2-step pour for Fosters!

&amp;quot;DrJohn&amp;quot;:1hwq691h wrote: While we are on the subject of tecnological breakthroughs in beer, I came across this a few days ago;

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.snpubs.co.uk/news/562778-foster-s-pourtal">www.snpubs.co.uk/news/562778-foster-s-pourtal

So now it's the 2-step pour for Fosters![/quote:1hwq691h]

Wasn't there always??? First pour Fosters into glass. Second pour contents of glass into sink.

&amp;quot;EoinMag&amp;quot;:1n22guir wrote: Chemicals might be overstated, I think most of what Adam is talking about would be extracts like sinamar and brewers caramel and hop extracts . I'm not so convinced it's nastier than what the big guys have done for years. That doesn't mean I'm a fan of the concept. The tannen zaepfle in MichaelJohns avatar is one of the best pils I've tasted and uses hopfenextrakt or hop extract.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk[/quote:1n22guir]


These things are quite different as they're also trying to add esters and lots of specific flavor compounds. -There's no rheinheitsgebot compliant stuff going on here (not that there's not a million near loopholes in the Rheinheitsgebot today anyway).



My point isn't that you can't make something that has more flavor than a cheap lager out of all these chemicals in a can, my point is that it's NOT craft beer. There's no "craft" in this type of brewery.

My other point is that we should have a definition of "Irish Craft Beer" that goes beyond "sugary liquid that has been fermented on this island and is produced by a brewery with an annual output of no greater than X". The CRAFT of beer making is missing from that definition. The macros are right in calling us out for defining craft simply as "small breweries in someones shed" because so far our definition HAS been focused on the size of the brewery and location-of-fermentation exclusively. "Irish Beer" is a more accurate term to describe a product with those attributes. I'd like to see a little more focus on the "craft" part of the term.


After adding a jar of chemicals to a lager they have the audacity to call the resulting "stout" "craft beer".

Right now if I import giant barrels of barley extract onto this island that's designed for use in food products and add it to a tank with some cold water and chuck some yeast in and my "brewery" is less than a certain size I've made what Beoir calls "Irish Craft Beer". -That's RIDICULOUS.


Most of us have been on at least one brewery tour before; the craft of beer and the imagery that it invokes is of taking raw natural ingredients (or at least ingredients derived from natural ingredients that have undergone only physical or temperature treatment and not chemical adulteration) and having a knowledgeable person manipulate these ingredients to create wort and to setup the proper conditions for yeasts to make beer (then the yeasts make the beer). The craft is in man manipulating the ingredients created by God (or "nature" or the deity of your choice)to create a product that come from something good. This is the magic and craft of beer.

Craft butchers, craft bakers, craft house building, it's people taking natural inputs and manipulating it using traditional knowledge in a primarily manual way to result in a local product that comes from something good and someone with a name (whether they're good or not is a completely different issue). This is how the term "craft" is used with food based products again and again and it's reasonable for it to mean something very similar when applied to beer.

It seems we're nervous to nail down a specific definition because of the fear that we'll get it wrong; I'd rather see us make constant slow improvements to our definition and go back and change it if we have to than having such a generic definition that leaves the "craft" aspects out.

Our definition at the moment only defines "beer" and "Irish" and avoids the issue of defining "craft" completely. The criticism that has been lodged against us by the macros of using a defacto definition of "craft" that says "small" is fair. We've had quite a while to think about our definition of "craft" or at least "Irish Craft Beer" and I think it's high time we included a clarification of what the "craft" part of that phrase means.

(And if it excludes someone or someone's products then that shouldn't be a problem.)


Adam

*Cue criticisms focused on any specific attempts at making a definition as a tactic to avoid discussion on whether our definition of "Irish Craft Beer" should actually include the "craft" aspects.*

-The problems with someone's specific definition of "craft" and whether or not we should define the craft aspects of "Irish Craft Beer" are two distinct and separate issues.

To jump to the conclusion that defining "craft" isn't a valid because of the problems with one particular proposed definition is a logical fallacy that should be avoided.


Adam