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"CDow":2j32nh3a wrote: [b:2j32nh3a]I wasn't twisting what you wrote[/b:2j32nh3a], read what you wrote. I disagree with [b:2j32nh3a]your stand that macro/industrial is bad and micro/craft is good[/b:2j32nh3a].

Guinness is the biggest selling beer in Ireland. Some people hate it, 1,000,000s love it. It is brewed by an international conglomerate. That doesn't make it a bad beer. Fullers is in the same bracket, a very large successful company with some excellent beer and some meh beer. Going by the Beoir interpretation of craft beer then there are some craft beers brewed on the Island of Ireland that wouldn't hold a candle to Guinness or London Pride. Neither of which would be considered a craft beer, regardless of where they are brewed.[/quote:2j32nh3a]


And yet again you make inference from what I said . Not once have I said anything about Macro being bad or Micro being good . You can read my posts again if you like .

My favourite Irish Macro Beer is Beamish .
My favourite bottled Macro import is probably Paulaner .
I consider them both to be good beers . Neither is a craft beer though .

What I prefer , or consider good beer is my own personal preference . But we weren't discussing that here . We were discussing " what is craft beer " you've been given the simplest , agreed definition we have for Irish Craft Beer . You've been told that we couldn't possibly account for what craft beer is or means in other places around the world .

I can't see what your beef is really .

Unless there's something else you'd really like to talk about , and your original question was just a lead in to get us discussing that .

If that's so , then ask away . We're all very happy to discuss most topics here .

And yet again you make inference from what I said . Not once have I said anything about Macro being bad or Micro being good . You can read my posts again if you like .

My favourite Irish Macro Beer is Beamish .
My favourite bottled Macro import is probably Paulaner .
I consider them both to be good beers . Neither is a craft beer though .

What I prefer , or consider good beer is my own personal preference . But we weren't discussing that here . We were discussing " what is craft beer " you've been given the simplest , agreed definition we have for Irish Craft Beer . You've been told that we couldn't possibly account for what craft beer is or means in other places around the world .

I can't see what your beef is really .

Unless there's something else you'd really like to talk about , and your original question was just a lead in to get us discussing that .

If that's so , then ask away . We're all very happy to discuss most topics here .[/quote]

[i:1yesvauk]Sorry to disappoint, but I don't have any beef. The topic was started in an attempt to discuss and explore what craft beer means and how it is perceived. As stated I find the Beoir definition to be too narrow, that is just my opinion. As has been discussed the concept of craft is open to interpretation much like the interpretation of what constitutes art.

I have no intention of getting into "you said, I said". Obviously what I interpretated was not what you intended but lets agree to disagree.[/i:1yesvauk]

"CDow":1tk5lj6y wrote: I think the Beoir interpretation of craft beer, while helpful, is ultimately too narrow as it excludes craft beers brewed by larger breweries outside of Ireland.[/quote:1tk5lj6y]Beoir is an Irish organisation aimed at promoting Irish beer. It defines only Irish Craft Beer. The constitution (article 2) recognises the value of quality imports but deliberately leaves that vague because there are no useful clear-cut definitions.

"CDow":1tk5lj6y wrote: The likes of Brewdog, Thornbridge, Brooklyn et al are embraced as craft yet would be excluded from the craft family if brewed here.[/quote:1tk5lj6y]The workings of Beoir have been designed around the real world. There may come a time when they are no longer fit for purpose, and we'll change them. But right now there is a clear dividing line between Ireland's independent breweries and the multinationals, and Beoir's definition is intended to reflect that.


[i:1tk5lj6y]Edited to add[/i:1tk5lj6y]: I'm not at all sure the breweries you mention would count as macro if airlifted to Ireland. Do you have output numbers for them?

"CDow":1tk5lj6y wrote: If we are going to have an Irish definition of craft then we should, IMO, have a overseeing or policing body like the wine AOCs in France to ensure adherence to the qualifying criteria.[/quote:1tk5lj6y]I'd totally agree with that. But like with the AOC system -- or indeed the Belgian "Authentic Trappist" designation -- it has to come from inside the industry. It is not the place of a consumer body to set out rules like this.

"CDow":1tk5lj6y wrote: I drink and enjoy Leann Folláin, O'Hara's IPA, Howling Gale etc because they are well made beers, not because of who makes them. Ditto some macro stouts.[/quote:1tk5lj6y]I think most of us are in the same boat and I genuinely don't think we have snobbery like in wine, or indeed like I've witnessed in the UK, where a beer may be judged solely on the source of its carbon dioxide. That's mad.

Beoir does not think there is anything wrong with mass-produced beer. It does not tell people not to drink it. It does not regard Irish craft beer as universally better than mass produced beer. It draws the line where it does because the industrial breweries are doing very well for themselves in terms of market share and don't need our help; the micros don't have the same level of marketing or distribution so Beoir aims to help interested drinkers find out what's out there and where to get it.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.bonappetit.com/magazine/2010/01/the_...lution#ixzz1lsx9ACxu">www.bonappetit.com/magazine/2010 ... z1lsx9ACxu
[quote:g34w76op]"The moment a craft brewer gets focused on quantity, they stop being a craft brewer," says Oskar Blues' Katechis.[/quote:g34w76op]

What he said.

Some would seem disagree

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The brewery is the brainchild of brothers-in-law Cormac O'Dwyer and Tom Dalton who set up the brewery along with their wives Jen and Claire with a view to offering the Irish beer drinker a greater choice in craft beers, with an emphasis on quality, craft and tradition. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="dungarvanbrewingcompany.com/about.html">dungarvanbrewingcompany.com/about.html

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&amp;quot;CDow&amp;quot;:ly2ihb1z wrote: Some would seem disagree[/quote:ly2ihb1z]

Disagree with what exactly?