TOPIC:

"CDow":2qx1wv68 wrote: Going by the Beoir interpretation of craft beer then there are some craft beers brewed on the Island of Ireland that wouldn't hold a candle to Guinness or London Pride. Neither of which would be considered a craft beer, regardless of where they are brewed.[/quote:2qx1wv68]

The Beoir definition doesn't imply anything about candle holding; it is completely independent of any judgments about taste or quality (thank goodness <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> )

&amp;quot;Dr Jacoby&amp;quot;:2ar40sq9 wrote:

&amp;quot;CDow&amp;quot;:2ar40sq9 wrote: Going by the Beoir interpretation of craft beer then there are some craft beers brewed on the Island of Ireland that wouldn't hold a candle to Guinness or London Pride. Neither of which would be considered a craft beer, regardless of where they are brewed.[/quote:2ar40sq9]

The Beoir definition doesn't imply anything about candle holding; it is completely independent of any judgments about taste or quality (thank goodness <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> )[/quote:2ar40sq9]

I was trying to show that craft/micro beers aren't always of better quality than those brewed by macro/industrials <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

Of course, but my point is that the Beoir definition of craft beer is of no use to you in this endeavour

I personally find this sort of topic great fun but I don't know if we're going to come away with any terribly satisfying conclusions.

I think what we're ultimately dealing with here are rhetorically leading labels that don't wholly fit the definitions we give to them. For example, the CAMRA definition of 'real ale' is a fairly clear cut and unambiguous, but what can be questioned is whether beer that doesn't fit that definition is unreal, synthetic, artificial, virtual, or merely nominal ale (or whatever the relevant antonym of 'real' is).

Similarly, the Irish definition of craft beer is unimpeachably clear, and genuinely sorts stuff which is from stuff which isn't "Irish Craft Beer" so defined, but it also trades on the connotations of the word 'craft' and it can be questioned, and I think CDow was implicitly questioning, whether stuff which doesn't meet the terms of the definition doesn't nonetheless display all or most the hallmarks of a craft as standard speakers of English understand it. To say something is made with craft implies it is done with skill and attention to detail, which the big multinationals unquestionably do in spades. It might also imply its 'handmade', but it's really unclear how much automation is necessary before you can't say this. I don't think anyone would object to using automatic temperature controlled fermentation, for example.

Essentially, skillful beer making is what every successful brewery does, so by the ordinary understanding, is entitled to call itself crafty.

I agree with CDow that aesthetic considerations don't belong in the definition, since that would turn things into a popularity contest (which the macros would definitely win!)

I support having some definition coextensive with the 'Irish Craft Beer' definition, though, whatever label we use. I think small breweries in local communities are worth supporting because they contribute variety and character; just like I'd rather eat at a restaurant than at McDonald's (etc.)

I also don't think that we'll arrive at a satisfactory outcome because there is no right or wrong. As has been said what constitutes craft is as personal as that that constitutes art. Therefore all beer can be perceived as craft depending on the drinkers interpretation of craft.

I think the Beoir interpretation of craft beer, while helpful, is ultimately too narrow as it excludes craft beers brewed by larger breweries outside of Ireland. The likes of Brewdog, Thornbridge, Brooklyn et al are embraced as craft yet would be excluded from the craft family if brewed here. If we are going to have an Irish definition of craft then we should, IMO, have a overseeing or policing body like the wine AOCs in France to ensure adherence to the qualifying criteria. This does not lead to clones as wines even from the same geographical area made with the same grapes can vary greatly in taste and quality.

I drink and enjoy Leann Folláin, O'Hara's IPA, Howling Gale etc because they are well made beers, not because of who makes them. Ditto some macro stouts. I agree about the contribution of local breweries. The beer world should avoid the snobbery that is exists in wine.

Interesting take on craft by The Reluctant Scooper <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.reluctantscooper.co.uk/">www.reluctantscooper.co.uk/

For the record.

If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks and shags and scaups like a duck, then it's a duck.

Craft beer is where you find it. Where you find it depends on how you define it.

How you define it? That's your call.

There will never - never - be agreement in the UK as to what 'craft beer' really means.

So let's just drink good beer and have some fun.

The Craft Beer Manifesto started on Twitter one bored morning when I was achingly tired by the excess PR of certain mediocre brewers. You may interpret this manifesto as having a pop at particular organisations and individuals. I couldn't possibly comment.

Because if it sounds like a dick, acts like a dick, tweets and blogs and brews like a dick, then it's a dick.


THE CRAFT BEER MANIFESTO.


1: Only use distilled otter's tears

2: Use only barley that's been warmed by the breath of kindly owls

3: Craft beer cares, so only use hops that have been flown halfway around the world

4: You can have it any colour you like, as long as it's not brown. Unless its an Indian Brown Ale

5: Beards allowed only if they're ironic

6: It's not "inconsistent", it's "experimental"

7: It's not "hiding faults", it's "barrel-ageing"

8: It's not "gone off", it's "challenging preconceptions of sour beer"

9: Ensure that the branding costs more than the brewhouse

10: Collaborate every month with an international brewer, a blogger, a celebrity & a musician

11: There are only seven ingredients in Craft Beer: hops, malt, water, yeast, YouTube, Twitter & Facebook

12: Our over-riding mantra - Craft Beer Is AWESOME !!! \m/\m/ !!!