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"steveb":2y1jqnt9 wrote:

"RichieH":2y1jqnt9 wrote: And, you only need a thin layer of Co2 (created by bottle fermentation) to safeguard the beer against oxygenation, so it doesn't matter if there is some oxygen in the beer, as long as there is a layer of co2 sealing the beer.[/quote:2y1jqnt9]
I don't think this is necessary true. CO2 is heavier than oxygen but brownian motion of the gas will cause oxygen to come into contact with the beer, albeit at a lower rate.[/quote:2y1jqnt9]

If there was one thing I never thought I'd have to worry about in brewing science it was brownian motion! Arggh!

&amp;quot;Ale Man&amp;quot;:1tz8c4ht wrote: I'm surprised I'm not dead due to drinking from bottles of homebrew for the past 12 yrs which may have contained the odd molecule of oxygen for a short period untill the yeast eats it while building new cell walls, is this really an issue <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt="" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->[/quote:1tz8c4ht]It seems it is. commercial winemakers definately flush their vessels with CO2 before bottling. Many beer brewers use a second fermenter to mix priming sugar in their beer before bottling, and this may also introduce air into the beer. We are interested enough in this to be investgating a CO2 dispenser to flush these containers with CO2 before introducing the beer.

We know some commercial brewers as well as microbrewers so let us get to the bottom of this and ask them what they do, and what they think about it.

&amp;quot;HomeBrewWest&amp;quot;:15olxcax wrote: It seems it is. commercial winemakers definately flush their vessels with CO2 before bottling.[/quote:15olxcax]

But wine is flat, and doesn't undergo refermentation/carbonation in the bottle so that's a different point.

&amp;quot;HomeBrewWest&amp;quot;:15olxcax wrote: Many beer brewers use a second fermenter to mix priming sugar in their beer before bottling, and this may also introduce air into the beer. We are interested enough in this to be investgating a CO2 dispenser to flush these containers with CO2 before introducing the beer.[/quote:15olxcax]

do you mean the bottling containers? I think this is not a problem if you rack it gently enough and avoid splashing.

&amp;quot;HomeBrewWest&amp;quot;:15olxcax wrote: We know some commercial brewers as well as microbrewers so let us get to the bottom of this and ask them what they do, and what they think about it.[/quote:15olxcax]

Well unless they bottle condition their beer, it's not really relevant to most of us what [i:15olxcax]they [/i:15olxcax]do. If you knew some of the belgian brewers who bottle condition beers that improve for years and years in the bottle, it would be interesting to know if they flush the bottles with gas.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:34nyqb4f wrote:

&amp;quot;HomeBrewWest&amp;quot;:34nyqb4f wrote: The Ox-Bar bottles drive oxygen out of the beer AFTER its bottled.[/quote:34nyqb4f]But the yeast will consume the oxygen anyway. What's the point?[/quote:34nyqb4f]

Sorry, i don't mean to pee on your chips, like has already been stated, the yeast are more than happy to munch up any oxegen left in the bottles. There's plenty of (home)brewers who leave beer in bottles for years without any i'll effects (not me <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt="" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> ). Best of luck with your plastic bottles, but in my honest opinion if something (ie glass bottles) work so well then i'm not about to switch to what, in my opinion is an inferior material