TOPIC:

So the huge amount of tax we pay is not enough?

They seem to forget that we ARE the tax payer. We pay income tax and then we pay extra tax in the form of alcohol duty when we buy alcohol. We then pay 23% vat on top of the entire sales price! Drinkers contribute more to the tax base than non-drinkers so where do they think they are going implying that we are a burden?

People will drink as much alcohol as they like and upping the price will not change that. In the past[/url:29i6g9ia], people have simply paid the higher price and continued to buy more, but if they hike up the price too much people feel the pinch and simply find other sources of cheap alcohol. Criminals will prosper and legitimate Irish businesses will suffer. The statistics will show a drop in sales, which they will claim means a drop in consumption and use it to justify more de-normalisation.

If you want to see where they would like to go with this, look at cigarettes.

The worst thing about this is that every step down this road takes us further away from the model in place in countries where the attitude to alcohol is better and alcohol related harm is much lower.

They talk about attitudes to alcohol having to change, but they seem to be unaware that their attitude to alcohol is part of the problem.

&amp;quot;MAF&amp;quot;:1l0ay377 wrote: I dunno lads, I’m all for open and balanced debate, but do ye [i:1l0ay377]seriously[/i:1l0ay377] think a hike in alcohol tax is going to lead to prohibition and/or gangland wars over illegal hooch?? <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt="" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? -->[/quote:1l0ay377]

Not prohibition but yes, gangland wars. It's what happens when there is more than one supplier in a black market and a territory dispute erupts. If you want previous examples just look at drugs and illegal cigarettes.

&amp;quot;sbillings&amp;quot;:3h4j1nt8 wrote: So the huge amount of tax we pay is not enough?

They seem to forget that we ARE the tax payer. We pay income tax and then we pay extra tax in the form of alcohol duty when we buy alcohol. We then pay 23% vat on top of the entire sales price! Drinkers contribute more to the tax base than non-drinkers so where do they think they are going implying that we are a burden?

People will drink as much alcohol as they like and upping the price will not change that. In the past[/url:3h4j1nt8], people have simply paid the higher price and continued to buy more, but if they hike up the price too much people feel the pinch and simply find other sources of cheap alcohol. Criminals will prosper and legitimate Irish businesses will suffer. The statistics will show a drop in sales, which they will claim means a drop in consumption and use it to justify more de-normalisation.

If you want to see where they would like to go with this, look at cigarettes.

The worst thing about this is that every step down this road takes us further away from the model in place in countries where the attitude to alcohol is better and alcohol related harm is much lower.

They talk about attitudes to alcohol having to change, but they seem to be unaware that their attitude to alcohol is part of the problem.[/quote:3h4j1nt8]
I never said that a tax hike would be the right thing to do, or that the government are handling this issue correctly. I agree with almost all you say, but not the 'criminals will prosper' bit.

&amp;quot;Andrew&amp;quot;:3h4j1nt8 wrote:

&amp;quot;MAF&amp;quot;:3h4j1nt8 wrote: I dunno lads, I’m all for open and balanced debate, but do ye [i:3h4j1nt8]seriously[/i:3h4j1nt8] think a hike in alcohol tax is going to lead to prohibition and/or gangland wars over illegal hooch?? <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt="" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? -->[/quote:3h4j1nt8]

Not prohibition but yes, gangland wars. It's what happens when there is more than one supplier in a black market and a territory dispute erupts. If you want previous examples just look at drugs and illegal cigarettes.[/quote:3h4j1nt8]I just don't see it going that way. If things are going to get that bad then I'm giving up homebrewing, as I don't want to be a target for the criminals.

the first thing you would probably notice is an increase in people traveling to the north for drink. which could remove more money from the economy then the new "tax" generates

MAF, criminals are already involved in the alcohol trade and have been for a very long time. When I was in college there was a house you could go to, knock on the back door and buy slabs of Fosters at a very good price. I was already homebrewing then, so I didn't avail, but I knew people who did.

It's not just from the dodgy bloke in the bad part of town that you can get your smuggled beer either. I have been served bottled beer in the on trade in Dublin and Cork which had been purchased in France and resold here.

This is a result of price inflation by our government and the more they raise the price, the more of this will go on. That is what I meant when I said criminals will prosper. People will buy their alcohol from criminals and the pubs and off licences will loose trade because they have to charge the government sanctioned price.

This is already happening with cigarettes.

Just exactly how much of an price/tax increase are people expecting here?