TOPIC:

So then, how long will a cask last and keep the beer at top condition with a breather? Obviously beer matures over time but when they say 'past the sell by date' or whatever, what sort of time length is that? ....... Basically will it work for me at home?

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"DEMPSEY":38zlghev wrote: As I understand it the term, "REAL ALE", is now in the oxford dictionary and gives a description of what it is and that this is also a legal description. All beer produced is real but CAMRA have got this description legalized so that they can distinguish what they support and what they dont support.[/quote:38zlghev]The term "Real Ale" has no legal weight, as far as I know. It's not a trademark. The only thing stopping unReal Ale being labelled as Real is consumer sentiment. Same as our old friend the Reinheitsgebot, I guess.

For the record, here is the Oxford English Dictionary definition of Real Ale. It's different from CAMRA's and seems to have been written by someone who doesn't understand how beer is made. "Secondary fermentation of the yeast"? Eh?

[img:38zlghev]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/thebeernut/oed.jpg[/img:38zlghev]

"TheBeerNut":2e56hdxs wrote:

"DEMPSEY":2e56hdxs wrote: As I understand it the term, "REAL ALE", is now in the oxford dictionary and gives a description of what it is and that this is also a legal description. All beer produced is real but CAMRA have got this description legalized so that they can distinguish what they support and what they dont support.[/quote:2e56hdxs]The term "Real Ale" has no legal weight, as far as I know. It's not a trademark. The only thing stopping unReal Ale being labelled as Real is consumer sentiment. Same as our old friend the Reinheitsgebot, I guess.

For the record, here is the Oxford English Dictionary definition of Real Ale. It's different from CAMRA's and seems to have been written by someone who doesn't understand how beer is made. "Secondary fermentation of the yeast"? Eh?

[img:2e56hdxs]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/thebeernut/oed.jpg[/img:2e56hdxs][/quote:2e56hdxs]

Wow, that's a TERRIBLE definition.

Adam

After reading the Zythophile article that Richard linked to (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="zythophile.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/mayb...and-dropped-the-ale/">zythophile.wordpress.com/2010/11 ... d-the-ale/), I think CAMRA's stance on cask breathers makes even more sense.

He points out that the near demise of cask ale occurred because of quality issues and that it was easier for pubs to maintain good quality in bottled and kegged products. CAMRA almost certainly is aware of this history and undoubtedly realizes that in order for cask ale to be perceived well in the marketplace that a focus must be made on ensuring that pubs treat is properly. -I think it's also an important issue for the breweries who don't want the pubs ruining their beer and THEIR good name.

If I were CAMRA, I'd want to focus on putting in place rules and incentives that make ensuring the quality of the beer in the pubs easy; saying "you must go through a cask within 3 days" is a pretty easy way to do that.


Granted it's been several decades since CAMRA started their mission and such stringent rules might not be necessary especially as the technology exists to keep the beer better longer if pubs don't abuse it.

I'm not defending everything CAMRA does -telling foreign breweries to serve their beer in a manner other than the one that it was originally intended for is certainly questionable, but the strict rules about dispense methods and to pressure make more sense in the historical context of British Cask Ale.


Adam

CAMRA may say that they think that cask breathers are OK under certain circumstances, but their actions discourage their use entirely. A thousand reassurances from CAMRA sources that it is sort of ok will not make up for the fact that a pub will loose it's Cask Marque sign and GBG listing. As Cask Breathers are not an option the landlord, when faced with a beer on the turn has to choose whether to take it off and maybe lose money or if he can squeeze another few pints out of the cask before the punters get uppity. That's the reality of the situation.

I think the idea of cask breathers might lead to poor beer quality, due to beer being kept too long is rather spurious. The [b:aqspv9cc]lack[/b:aqspv9cc] of a cask breather most certainly [b:aqspv9cc]does[/b:aqspv9cc] lead to poor beer quality. No maybe about it. Even in well run pubs, with plenty if custom you will occasionally get flat or vinegary or otherwise degraded beer.

&amp;quot;Biertourist&amp;quot;:aqspv9cc wrote: I'm not defending everything CAMRA does -telling foreign breweries to serve their beer in a manner other than the one that it was originally intended[/quote:aqspv9cc] To be fair, I don't think they do that. I have heard of Irish breweries being expected to provide cask [color=#FF0000:aqspv9cc][edit] at the GBBF[/color:aqspv9cc], but I think that has more to do with ignorance of the Irish Beer scene/history than any desire to influence beer in Ireland.

As I said I have no problem with CAMRA doing whatever they like in the UK. I just don't want these notions to spread to Ireland. We have a very inclusive beer scene here and I would hate to hear of any brewery or pub being criticized for using a cask breather, or any other dispense method. If it's good beer, it's good beer.