TOPIC:

[Edit] Sorry! I meant to put this in Brewing Chat... Can an Admin move or delete it for me? [/Edit]

Anyone want to help me troubleshoot my latest beer?


Recipe located here: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="www.beoir.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6701">viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6701

BeerTools estimated a final gravity of 1.019 so I upped the bitterness and was ok with the OG getting all the way up to 1.076 and the ABV to 7.49% because I figured the high residual gravity could deal with it.

-INSTEAD, 6 days later my fermenter is still bubbling every 18 seconds and yesterday the gravity read 1.010; I haven't measured it today but I'm guessing 1.009 or 1.008.

This is a HUGE, HUGE difference between BeerTools estimated FG and mine; YES, I mashed on the low side and I mashed for 60 minutes with malts that have high diastatic power, but fermentability of the mash alone is NOT enough to make up for the difference.

I'm thinking that BeerTools fermentability estimate for honey is to blame; there's 1.7 KG of honey in this "beer" (Braggot).


I'm trying to track down actual fermentability of honey and compare it to what beer tools says...


Adam

I'm also looking for recommendations on how to back sweeten this a bit. (1.012 will be my starting point)


-I got a couple of recommendations for Lactose, which I was expecting, but I don't want it to get any kind of "milky" flavor if that's an issue.

Are there any other options?

Would dextrin malt steeped, boiled and added at this point help? -Would dextrin malt add more fermentable sugars or JUST unfermentable dextrins? Anyone know the percentages of each?

-The beer looks and tastes (after filtration through a paper towel) like a dry mead at this point because I didn't add enough 0 minute hops and I haven't added the dry hopping addition yet because primary fermentation is still going on.

-Having said that, there's almost no acidity so it is a very bland and boring dry mead. -I'm torn because I could up the acidity as is and have a pretty good mead, but that's not where I want to go with this, I want to dry hop and juniper berry dry hop the crap out of it.

-On the issue of acid addition, should I be adding a vinters acid blend or is just citric good enough? (Any of you wine/mead makers I'm looking to you for this one as I really just make beer.)



Adam

I found a POSSIBLE reason for why the recipe is off so much.

BeerSmith calculates honey additions (and other simple sugar additions) just as if they were malt extract additions, where they add the simple sugars to the Original Gravity numbers, and then also add to the terminal gravity numbers based upon the typical attenuation of yeast with a beer that strong.

-Essentially the higher fermentability of these ingredients is not accounted for properly in the final gravity numbers; only the starting gravity numbers. -Your better off adding these ingredients in the tool to calculate your actual Original Gravity, and then removing it to calculate your final gravity (especially with dextrose which is near 100% fermentable), and then plugging the OG and FGs into an ABV calculator to find the ABV.

Here's the BeerSmith post from Brad Smith about the issue (Note: This might be fixed in the new BeerSmith 2.0; not sure)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,1972.0.html">www.beersmith.com/forum/index.ph ... 972.0.html

My guess is that BeerTools uses this same simple method to estimate the OG and FG.


Anyway, BE CAREFUL when using decent amounts of simple sugar and do the calculations yourself for your Final Gravity and ABV because the tools seem to LIE.


Adam

When I adjust the FG contribution of the honey to assume 100% attenuation, I'm left with an FG of 1.013 with a 75% attenuation; I did mash way low and if I adjust my attenuation up to 85% the numbers work out perfectly. (and FG of 1.008)

-I'm not sure how to quite weight the fermentability of my wort and the typical attenuation of my yeast strain to figure out the actual total Attenutation but I kind of expected BeerTools to do this for me. (There seems to be no option to put in Mash Temps.)
-I think I'm going to download a trial of BeerSmith because I'm starting to see the disadvantages of BeerTools at this stage. (My FG estimate being off by 11 points! While my OG was dead-on because of the tools inability to calculate two important brewing variables does NOT make me happy; 11 points is definitely enough to lose my business.)


Adam

Still doesn't make sense; Honey is generally only 85% fermentable, but it varies depending upon the amount of moisture in the honey...


I'm open to any ideas, I really can't comprehend how the FG estimate is off by SOOO much from Beertools.


Adam

It's down to 1.008 and tastes like jet fuel!

If you've wondered if you've ever tasted fusol alcohols, trying a sip of this will acquaint you with them VERY quickly. IT's BURN, BURN, BURN and just shy of 9% right now and plenty of nail polish remover flavor actually LOADS of it.

(Nail polish remover is ethyl acetate and it DOES sort of smell like pears!!)

Nottingham at room temperature in a high alcohol beer is NOT a good idea!

(I need to see if just leaving the beer on the yeast will break down the ethyl acetate into something nicer because this is like drinking jet fuel right now.) -Crud, from what I have read esters are unlikely to be broken down further and I can't boil them off with out boiling off ethanol. Jet Fuel Viking Mjod I think might be what I have now.


Adam