TOPIC:

"Mill Rat":ne8rfdqh wrote: Fortunately for us, folks like Fritz Maytag, Dan Koch, John and Greg Hall, and too many others to mention didn't accept that as any particular sort of wisdom.[/quote:ne8rfdqh]Fortunately for you it's possible for people to open a bar without buying an existing licence. And fortunately also beer is a niche market open to expansion rather than a way of life long-since cornered by the macrobrewers.

"Mill Rat":ne8rfdqh wrote: Nonetheless, there's a critical level of interest, as the Porterhouse proves, and even McGuires manages to get enough of their beers sold off before they turn nasty even without any particular effort to promote them.[/quote:ne8rfdqh]It's all about owning the pub. What we're talking about here is more something like Galway Hooker in Galway: a beer that every pub in the county can take ownership of. Unfortunately for Dublin it exists; it's called Guinness and it isn't very good.

"Mill Rat":ne8rfdqh wrote: Entry into the US market might help someone really ramp up production, but the US market isn't exactly a pushover. There have been many new brands or variations on existing brands introduced by the big 3 (or is it 2 now) that arrived amid a storm of TV advertising and silently disappeared fvrom the shelves less than a year later.[/quote:ne8rfdqh]Carlow seem to be doing all right out of the US market. It's a niche -- I doubt they do any TV advertising.

"Mill Rat":zrsrhkyd wrote: Fortunately for us, folks like Fritz Maytag, Dan Koch, John and Greg Hall, and too many others to mention didn't accept that as any particular sort of wisdom.[/quote:zrsrhkyd]

I would love to agree, but Ireland have massive inertia to change and loyalty to ceretain brands in what they drink unless the is a big push for the brewers. This isn't to just my opion I have hears some marketing people profess a similar view. A classic is the arrive of paluaner that was massively pushed by inbev. Porterhouse have said they only way to survive in this country is to have a pub where you can sell direct to the consumer its just to hard to find publicans (except the management of the bull and castle <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> ) that are intreated

&amp;quot;oblivious&amp;quot;:1ov482n5 wrote: the arrive of paluaner that was massively pushed by inbev[/quote:1ov482n5]Heineken
/pedant
(sorry)

&amp;quot;oblivious&amp;quot;:1ov482n5 wrote: except the management of the bull and castle[/quote:1ov482n5]And it has the luxury of a large parent company helping with the risk. Tara's was a closer model and look what happened there.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:2pe21ztb wrote: Tara's was a closer model and look what happened there.[/quote:2pe21ztb]

As you suggested it was in the wrong location, frankly I really don't believe there are a significant number of publican interested in unless a major brewing does the leg work

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:240pivac wrote: Fortunately for you it's possible for people to open a bar without buying an existing licence. And fortunately also beer is a niche market open to expansion rather than a way of life long-since cornered by the macrobrewers.[/quote:240pivac]
That really depends on the local laws, since each state within the union, and each municipality within each state is able to concoct their own stricter rules, and many times those rules place a hard upper limit on the number of licences available and that number is often fairly stingy. I will give you a bit of the "way of life" aspect, but with Heinie and Bud making the inroads I last saw over there, at least the younger customers seem less committed to a single brand, even if all those two brands seem to have going for them is advertising.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:240pivac wrote: It's all about owning the pub. What we're talking about here is more something like Galway Hooker in Galway: a beer that every pub in the county can take ownership of. Unfortunately for Dublin it exists; it's called Guinness and it isn't very good.[/quote:240pivac]I'm really not sure that what you're asking for is possible. Even now in the US, any of the beers that "every pub in the county can take ownership of" is still one of the watered-down national macro-beers. I think the realistic upper limit is a beer that perhaps one out of every 10 pubs might have on tap, and that 2 out of the remaining 9 might keep in bottles for the oddball beer geeks that actually like the taste of malt and hops.

As much as you may find it plebian and uninspired, being able to have the base-level expectation that one could walk into any pub in the US and find Guinness or the equivalent on draft would be an improvement over the current state of affairs. Right now my base level expectation here is that the draft beer is Miller Light, and if you want something special out of the cooler there might be regular Miller, Coors, or Bud / Bud Light. Having Heinie available would actually be a step up, Guinness in a nitro can would be exceptional, and something like Sam Adams Boston Lager would be a damn thrill.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:240pivac wrote: [/quote:240pivac]Carlow seem to be doing all right out of the US market. It's a niche -- I doubt they do any TV advertising.

[Reply]Can't say I've seen much advertising from Carlow, but my work schedule and habits at home mean that I get fairly minuscule exposure to most mass-media advertising. To be able to serve a good portion of the US market means having a sizable level of local production and sales to be able to make the investment(or the financial resources and cojones to make the gamble) in the equipment needed to cover the additional sales that's being hoped for.

&amp;quot;Mill Rat&amp;quot;:1mlq2v4m wrote: That really depends on the local laws[/quote:1mlq2v4m]But as long as there are enough places on a secure enough financial footing to take risks on craft beer, a small brewery and its brand can survive. It's nothing to do with the number of pubs -- Ireland has loads -- it's the cost of buying a licence to run one in a closed and unregulated market. That's what makes Irish publicans risk averse.

&amp;quot;Mill Rat&amp;quot;:1mlq2v4m wrote: I will give you a bit of the "way of life" aspect, but with Heinie and Bud making the inroads I last saw over there, at least the younger customers seem less committed to a single brand[/quote:1mlq2v4m]I don't think it's fair to say they're making inroads. They're the establishment, and the people who drink them are [i:1mlq2v4m]very[/i:1mlq2v4m] loyal to them.

&amp;quot;Mill Rat&amp;quot;:1mlq2v4m wrote: I think the realistic upper limit is a beer that perhaps one out of every 10 pubs might have on tap, and that 2 out of the remaining 9 might keep in bottles for the oddball beer geeks that actually like the taste of malt and hops.[/quote:1mlq2v4m]Well yes, sure, but in Dublin that is a hell of a lot of pubs. I'd be very happy with that.

&amp;quot;Mill Rat&amp;quot;:1mlq2v4m wrote: Having Heinie available would actually be a step up, Guinness in a nitro can would be exceptional[/quote:1mlq2v4m]I really don't see how Guinness and Heineken are any better than Miller Light. Macroswill is macroswill. Macroswill in a widget can or green bottle is going to be even worse than the brown-bottle alternative, IMO.

&amp;quot;Mill Rat&amp;quot;:1mlq2v4m wrote: To be able to serve a good portion of the US market means having a sizable level of local production and sales to be able to make the investment(or the financial resources and cojones to make the gamble) in the equipment needed to cover the additional sales that's being hoped for.[/quote:1mlq2v4m]It's the other way around. Being able to serve a tiny proportion of the US market probably generates enough capital for Carlow to stay alive and trading in Ireland where no-one cares about it. White Gypsy in Tipperary plans on taking this to the extreme by making all of its beer in Ireland but selling absolutely none of it here.