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You'd only have had to have it laser-removed and replaced with a Beoir one <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

[quote:3e7u779b]Barry M wrote:

I wish the Englanders would call Ireland Ireland unless they are speaking/writing in Irish. Sorry, pet annoyance, and I don't know why! I need to talk to a shrink I think..[/quote:3e7u779b].

Speaking as a foreigner living in Dublin (I originally hail from the antipodes), I say give the guy a break; he probably meant well.

Personally, I don't use any of the politically correct alternatives to traditional names of places: Bombay is Bombay, Burma is Burma, and Ireland is Ireland. Your as likely as not to get into trouble from someone who thinks your being patronising.

Of course it would be different if you were to use a word or placename that is deliberately pejorative, but the traditional names were never pejorative, just neutral.

&amp;quot;UpsidedownA&amp;quot;:34wn6kuk wrote: traditional names were never pejorative, just neutral.[/quote:34wn6kuk]"Éire" is bad grammar when used in a sentence. "Eire" is bad spelling [i:34wn6kuk]and[/i:34wn6kuk] bad grammar.

[quote:2xxdfqlr]"Éire" is bad grammar when used in a sentence. "Eire" is bad spelling and bad grammar.[/quote:2xxdfqlr]

Bad spelling and bad grammar in what language? It's not bad grammar or bad spelling in English, which is what he was writing in (unless there was a little island of Irish in an otherwise English sentence fragment).

I've already accidentally made a big deal out of this, which wasn't my intention.

All I wanted to say was that you can't expect speakers of English from other countries to get these things right or respect sensitivities in these matters. English is a world language, so it's to be expected that most speakers will be ignorant of the particular political or historical associations people have with certain words.[quote:2xxdfqlr][/quote:2xxdfqlr]

&amp;quot;UpsidedownA&amp;quot;:21ctj1pr wrote: (unless there was a little island of Irish in an otherwise English sentence fragment)[/quote:21ctj1pr]That's exactly it. Éire is an Irish word -- it doesn't exist in English (the English translation is "Ireland": see article 4 of the Constitution, for example). Using an Irish noun in the middle of an English sentence is fine; using an Irish nominative-case noun where the genitive ("Éireann") or dative (Éirinn") are required is just bad grammar.

&amp;quot;UpsidedownA&amp;quot;:21ctj1pr wrote: All I wanted to say was that you can't expect speakers of English from other countries to get these things right or respect sensitivities in these matters.[/quote:21ctj1pr]The opposite side of that is that anyone can make any ham-fisted attempt at speaking any language they want, and that's OK. Or, as the French say, un bon attempt et tres commendáble.

&amp;quot;UpsidedownA&amp;quot;:21ctj1pr wrote: the particular political or historical associations people have with certain words.[/quote:21ctj1pr]I don't think anyone, other than yourself, has mentioned political or historical associations. It's just that "Éire" sounds wrong and is almost always grammatically incorrect when used in the midst of English. Logically, if you say "Spain" rather than "Espana" and "Finland" rather than "Suomi" it just sounds jarringly weird if you switch to Irish when speaking about Ireland. And then get your case wrong.

I myself have never being one to get upset at spoken words as language is a living growing thing,grammer is for school teachers to get excited about,when I had a debate about correct speaking with a priest once I refered him to the writings of roddy doyle.As /george w bush once said when speaking of the french "how could the french know anything about business they dont even have a word for entrepreneur"