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True, but CAMRA has a different agenda to us.

Their aim is primarily the promotion of what they call Real Ale where as we are just promoting quality craft beer and the conditioning/dispensing method does not mean a whole lot.

That said, it would go along way to have a good relationship with them.

"Saruman":1pm34k3d wrote: True, but CAMRA has a different agenda to us.

Their aim is primarily the promotion of what they call Real Ale where as we are just promoting quality craft beer and the conditioning/dispensing method does not mean a whole lot.

That said, it would go along way to have a good relationship with them.[/quote:1pm34k3d]

Thats a fair point saruman although at a local level commonsense prevails so their position isn't as different as you'd think.

On a wider issue though I like many others have always been a bit uncomfortable with CAMRAs idea that all non-naturally dispensed beer is bad (which is bollox) but also the other side of the coin which is that all naturally dispensed beer is good (it patently isn't).

Although beior has a slightly different agenda you can see parallels, from my cursory reading of the constitution beior seems to be promoting beer primarily on the basis of volumes brewed (which you could argue is self defeating to some extent).

[b:1pm34k3d]2. Beoir is focused on supporting and raising awareness of our native independent microbreweries and craft cider-makers, defined as those companies on the island of Ireland which brew or make less than 20,000 hectolitres of beer and/or cider per year. Beoir also recognises the role of quality imported beer and cider in improving the choice available to Irish consumers and seeks to promote the widest distribution and retailing of such products. [/b:1pm34k3d]

This rather like the CAMRA definition makes presumptions about what constitues good beer, in simple terms beior is saying all beer made in large volumes is bad (it isn't) and all beer that is made in small volumes is good (it isn't).
As it stands i could brew the most god awful beer tons of sugar, no maturation peroid and full of all the additives under the sun but as long as i naturally condition it then CAMRA will give it their seal of approval. Likewise if i produce small quantities of this god awful beer Beior will promote it as im a native microbrewer.


I suspect a much more useful definition of what constitues good beer would take into account the ingredients used to make it and the brewing process itself, so for instance cheap adjuncts like corn or sugar could be limited to a certain percentage, the use of isomerised hop extract in a beer would rule out its inclusion etc etc.

Obviously this more stringent approcach would require the gathering of more information that 'do you naturally condition your beer' in the case of CAMRA or 'how much of it do you brew' in the case of beoir but in my oponion it would serve the beer drinking consumer looking for a quality product much better.
If it gained recognition it could actually incentivise some of the larger breweries to use better ingredients to produce a better beer that they could then claim to be 'good beer' or whatever in much the same way as one can claim the 'real ale' tag now. In this way it could potentially make the greatest difference to the largest number of drinkers which i guess can only be a good thing.
Personally somthing like that i could really throw my weight behind.

I think the original thinking was that bigger breweries don't really need our promotion? Although the point that we might encourage better beer from big brewers if we don't exclude them is valid (but is that really likely, anyway?).

"muirgheasa":2xr07m2w wrote: I think the original thinking was that bigger breweries don't really need our promotion? Although the point that we might encourage better beer from big brewers if we don't exclude them is valid (but is that really likely, anyway?).[/quote:2xr07m2w]

"muirgheasa":2xr07m2w wrote: I think the original thinking was that bigger breweries don't really need our promotion? Although the point that we might encourage better beer from big brewers if we don't exclude them is valid (but is that really likely, anyway?).[/quote:2xr07m2w]

Surely quality is the end game how can else can you encourage quality if you don't recognise and reward it when you see it despite how much of it was made and who it was made by, surely you'd want more of it to be produced so that more could enjoy it.

A lot of the good 'craft' beer from the states etc would at the moment fall foul of this volume based promotion if they brewed in ireland. What does that say when if for instance a sierra nevada was brewing in irealand but their beer could not be promoted because they were too successful.

What about if one of the locals micros brewed such good beer that they exceeded in becoming a mid size brewery does their beer suddenly become less good or less worthy of promotion.
As a brewer myself who understands what makes a good beer it has to be about quality any other criteria is flawed IMO.

I accept your point that the large breweries may be more intransigent to the idea but that would be their loss, but at the same time you can only try. At least if you went with a quality criteria the consumer could pick a Beoir quality badged bottle from the shelf with some degree of confidence that what they were getting is well brewed good beer made from the best ingredients.

I for one welcome good beer from the larger breweries.

The Smithwicks advertising showing the nice shiny bottle makes me want a pint bottle of Smithwicks to try. I have yet to see one but if they have produced a good beer I will drink it and promote it.

Likewise Guinness are currently brewing a new beer and have got brewers and past brewers & other employees alike in to give a hand. I have no idea what the beer is or if it will ever make it to the shelves/pubs but I look forward to finding out.

It is a charity thing[/url:2p5k7dkn] for the moment. My bosses wife is a former Guinness brewer and she went along.

I think there are some warning signals in the Beoir posts, in that if Beoir founder members are not clear on what Beoir is about there is zero chance of the public getting the message.

CAMRA's message may be rigid and somewhat non-sensical but its strength is its simplicity. The public have the attention span to take on one message, so in my view that message should either be about promoting choice, regardless of source or promoting Irish micros.

My personal preference is for more choice but I feel that promoting Irish micros is more likely to succeed. I don't believe that doing both is a viable option.

I believe that the Irish micro message is more likely to succeed because it can capitalise on the trend of buying locally produced, quality products, it supports local enterprise and employment in a recession, the media are more likely to be interested in Irish micro stories and the beers produced are friendly to the Irish palate.

#my2cents