TOPIC:

[color=olive:1j3cgg4z]What follows hereunder (apt), are excerpts from a letter from Ian Caig, chairman (IIRC) of SOBA, a distant cousin from CAMRA in New Zealand.
A subsidiary from Heineken, Dominion Brewery, is causing havoc, having copyrighted names that are not exactly seen as proper names in other parts of the world. Read on. [/color:1j3cgg4z]



We recently decided to challenge Dominion Breweries trademarking of different beer styles in New Zealand, this coming to a head after DB forced the Green Man Brewery to re-label one of their beers. Dominion Breweries is owned by Heineken. A DB subsidiary, Monteiths Brewery, produces a so called Radler of about 4.5% ABV i.e. not true to style, whilst the Green Man Brewery version was the classic 2.5% ABV. The heavy handed action by DB cost Green Man in the region of $50,000 and they were forced to accept a gagging order.

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SOBA (we only have 200 members) supported by an Intellectual Property group of lawyers, working pro-bono, decided to take on DB over the trademarking of Radler and Saison on the premise that these are beer styles and should not be trademarkable. Earlier this week, DB’s lawyers responded by declining all our objections, refusing to back down on the trade mark issue and informing us that they will seek costs against us.

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I appreciate that I have sent e-mails to you previously however the situation over here in New Zealand is getting more challenging. In my earlier e-mails I mentioned that Dominion Breweries (owned by Heineken) have managed to trade mark various beer styles, including Radler and Saison, and that we (SOBA – Society of Beer Advocates) were going to challenge the right of a brewer to trade mark an internationally available beer style. The challenge was made as a result of DB forcing the Green Man Brewery (a small independent brewer) to re-label all their Ralder style beer as “Cyclist”. Dominion Breweries are refusing to acknowledge any error in trademarking the style and are insisting that SOBA, as plaintiff, pays them costs – as an organisation of less than 200 members (we are only 3 years old), any settlement would probably force us into bankruptcy.

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This is only the first battle and is over a not particularly highly rated beer style, however it is the principal behind it that counts. The serious battle comes over that very Belgian beer style “Saison”, which DB have also trade marked. Trademarking of Saison, theoretically, means that no non New Zealand brewed Saison beer can be imported into the country with that name nor can any New Zealand brewer brew a saison and call it that.

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[color=olive:1j3cgg4z]I think this is not only an EBCU matter, but a matter of brewers and beerlovers from over ALL the world.

BTW, I'm honestly sorry not following your fora more closely, but time is so scarce, and beers so plentiful... <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->


Joris [/color:1j3cgg4z]

well that is a disgrace, but I suppose it's in the hands of the judge. If you have copyright lawyers I'm sure they'll make the argument well. It seems like a classic case of big companies trying to copyright something that already exists, I think judges usually see it for what it is (hopefully)

I'd seen this and it's a disgrace. But it was ever thus. Budweiser, Salvator and Hoegaarden all went this way before.

Note, however, that this is a trade marks issue [b:1kf0mhqc]not[/b:1kf0mhqc] a copyright one.

Well done to SOBA for fighting it. I don't know if much can be done in New Zealand, but if this isn't to be allowed spread I think every interested craft brewer in the world should now be making a saison and a radler in solidarity. This is how a future court can be shown it's a generic style and therefore cannot be made the property of an individual company.

Sounds very similar to a court case in Ireland a few years ago in the cider industry ,where Bulmers were brought to court over the use of the word 'Scrumpy' on their cider 'Golden Scrumpy'.They were challenged by Symonds Cider Co. the owners of the brand 'Scrumpy Jack' saying that the word 'scrumpy' was part of their trademark and not a type of cider[/url:tnslry0n] which Bulmers claimed.
To the best of my knowledge the courts came back(correctly in my opinion)on Bulmers side and the the use of the word was allowed and decided that scrumpy was a 'type' and style of cider untrademarkable.
Maybe a bit of research in that direction may help as both New Zealand and Ireland are ex-colonial states of the UK maybe some of our laws would be similar,I dunno.??

[quote:2khabvic]Note, however, that this is a trade marks issue not a copyright one.[/quote:2khabvic]
[color=olive:2khabvic]
You are, of course, entirely right.

Alas, being not well-versed in economy (or its terms), and anything but a native English speaker, the distinction is a bit lost on me, sorry.[/color:2khabvic]

&amp;quot;Joris P.&amp;quot;:1e8o2egg wrote: the distinction is a bit lost on me, sorry.[/quote:1e8o2egg]

you copyright a concept or an idea, or intellectual property like a book or a song, you trademark an advertising phrase or a name or a logo, something that identifies a product or service.