"EoinMag":3c782s0l wrote: A good intro to the sweetened sours is the Chapeau Geuze, it gets bad reviews online but it's a delicious beer and I think a great intro to the genre.
I also know that drinkstore have a few of them as they got a case in for me recently and I only took six of the twelve bottles.
Mariage Parfait is a more hardcore example not being sweetened.
I'm really getting to like the sours now too and have a project for blending a geuze in mind shortly, I already have the lambic blend yeast bought and will shortly make that into a starter <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
15 Gallons @ 5 Gallons per year and after three years I intend to blend and split it three ways, making a Geuze, a framboise and a Kriek, ambitious but I think it'll be fun.[/quote:3c782s0l]
What an exciting project! Have you looked into using the Solera method for doing a Gueze/ soured beer? (Then you have a constant supply that you can drink over time and you have a constant supply of Geuze still aging and you have insane complexity in it, too.) -Not a traditional, authentic method, but gaining some supporters in the homebrewing circles. (From what I remember on a prevous thread you're looking to go 100% traditional on this one.)
Adam[/quote:3c782s0l]
I haven't done much research on it at all yet, but I have all the ingredients and one five gallon carboy, I need to get another two, but I have a year for one and two years for the other.
The problem presently is that I tend to use the carboy I have now for my ciders and I have one to put on soon, so maybe I need to buy three glass carboys, either that or I start to ferment my cider in plastic. I definitely won't be fermenting the Lambics in plastic in any case.
I'll also look into getting wood into the mix somehow, although I'm not a fan of wood in alcohol particularly I think it belongs in the lambic/geuze profiles.
The main problem I'm seeing is a source for whole cherries that are suitable, I can get canned from Belgium that only have water added, so I'll see how it pans out. Raspberries will be expensive but as a once off project I think it's an expense I can live with. In the meantime I am building up a collection of pressure bottles for the bottling.
&quot;EoinMag&quot;:177c9e8s wrote: I definitely won't be fermenting the Lambics in plastic in any case. [/quote:177c9e8s]
why not?[/quote:177c9e8s]
Because of the extended aging and the extremely high O2 permeability of plastic bucket fermenters.
Large Belgian wooden fermentation vessel (20,000 liters) diffuses 0.53 cc/liter/year of O2
Small Belgian wooden fermetnation vessels (12,000 liters) diffuse 0.86 cc/liter/year of O2
A wine barrel = 8.5 cc/liter/year of O2
A 10 gallon barrel = 23 cc/liter/year of O2
a glass carboy w a silicon stopper = 17 cc/liter/year
And (drumroll) an HPDE homebrew fermentation bucket = 220 cc/liter/year
You get over 10x the oxygen uptake in an HPDE fermentation bucket than a glass carboy. When brewing a beer with Brett and bacteria the oxygen uptake is important as the organisms produce different products depending upon whether they have oxygen or not. (Brett will produce more acid under aerobic conditions and can only produce the "harsher" acetic ("vinegar") acid under aerobic conditions.)
I could not agree with you more EoinMag, you don't want to ferment in a plastic ferm bucket for several years....
I take it those are the figures from wildbrews, I seem to remember the plastic figures being closer to the barrel ones. Oh well we all make mistakes. I wonder how much of a difference this would make if the plastic was twice as thick as the standard youngs tub
&quot;EoinMag&quot;:1on7a7ki wrote: I definitely won't be fermenting the Lambics in plastic in any case. [/quote:1on7a7ki]
why not?[/quote:1on7a7ki]
Because of the extended aging and the extremely high O2 permeability of plastic bucket fermenters.
Large Belgian wooden fermentation vessel (20,000 liters) diffuses 0.53 cc/liter/year of O2
Small Belgian wooden fermetnation vessels (12,000 liters) diffuse 0.86 cc/liter/year of O2
A wine barrel = 8.5 cc/liter/year of O2
A 10 gallon barrel = 23 cc/liter/year of O2
a glass carboy w a silicon stopper = 17 cc/liter/year
And (drumroll) an HPDE homebrew fermentation bucket = 220 cc/liter/year
You get over 10x the oxygen uptake in an HPDE fermentation bucket than a glass carboy. When brewing a beer with Brett and bacteria the oxygen uptake is important as the organisms produce different products depending upon whether they have oxygen or not. (Brett will produce more acid under aerobic conditions and can only produce the "harsher" acetic ("vinegar") acid under aerobic conditions.)
I could not agree with you more EoinMag, you don't want to ferment in a plastic ferm bucket for several years....
Adam[/quote:1on7a7ki]
That saved me a lot of typing thanks Adam.
Short story, oxygen permeability of plastic vs extended aging. For the long story read Adams reply <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
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