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&amp;quot;Rory&amp;quot;:19xllkc4 wrote: There are quite duff brewers in the U.S and U.K too <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->[/quote:19xllkc4]Don't forget Belgium!

I'd say it's hard to pay the bills relying on drinkers like us, who want Irish beers to be all Racer 5, St. Bernardus Abt 12 and Harvey's Best. But at the same time things have improved enormously over the last five years and I think the signs are good.

As to World Class, I would put Wrasslers XXXX and Of Foam & Fury up with the best of what I've tasted from the rest of the planet in similar styles.

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:39y0iskk wrote:

&amp;quot;Rory&amp;quot;:39y0iskk wrote: There are quite duff brewers in the U.S and U.K too <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->[/quote:39y0iskk]Don't forget Belgium!

I'd say it's hard to pay the bills relying on drinkers like us, who want Irish beers to be all Racer 5, St. Bernardus Abt 12 and Harvey's Best. But at the same time things have improved enormously over the last five years and I think the signs are good.

As to World Class, I would put Wrasslers XXXX and Of Foam & Fury up with the best of what I've tasted from the rest of the planet in similar styles.[/quote:39y0iskk]

Ireland are ealy on in their craft beer surge, we're at 2/3 the number of breweries per head of the US but if you include those in planning we may even be ahead.

Ireland is where Scotland was 2 years ago, scotland already ahead of USA in brewers per capita and numbers doubled over about 18months.

A slew of new breweries producing beers to compete with the rest of the UK, some even up there with the very best (ask me who i think over a beer at RDS!)

Irish breweries putting out solid beers that i'd happily recommend to any overseas visitors: galway bay, blacks, mescan, rascals, fran well, carlow, 8 degrees plus a number of others. That's not to say the breweries above don't make the odd dodgy brew, but the same can be said of all breweries (look at ratebeer for stone, brewdog, kernel to name but a few).

Depending on your definition of world class but I would say it means "brewing beers of a quality to compete on the world stage". I'd say a number are already there and getting better all the time. As John says imitation isn't the important thing, innovation and quality are. Exciting times indeed!

No surprise that St.Mel's are making good stuff as Liam had already proven himself with Leann Folláin. Don't think they're at the RDS this year are they?

I think in terms of world class it's a lot easier for a brewery from any nation to achieve success. Any brewery can, in theory, access the best hops, malt and yeast. All they have to do then is get someone who knows what to do with them. (I make it sound so easy)

&amp;quot;irish_goat&amp;quot;:2vlyv1n2 wrote: No surprise that St.Mel's are making good stuff as Liam had already proven himself with Leann Folláin. Don't think they're at the RDS this year are they?[/quote:2vlyv1n2]

No, not up to capacity yet. But I'm sure Liam will pop his head round the door at some stage...

I'd agree with the above post that asks what is world class.

I'm not qualified to quantify what is or isn't world class I just go on my taste buds. I recently drank Nogne Imperial Stout and Dungarvan Blackrock (not blind). In my, and my friends, opinions the Blackrock was better.
I think that there are some fantastic stouts being brewed here, maybe we are only discovering the variances possible in other styles that have only recently been rediscovered / developed.

Sometimes far away fields are greener.

&amp;quot;CDow&amp;quot;:326xufi0 wrote: I'd agree with the above post that asks what is world class.

I'm not qualified to quantify what is or isn't world class I just go on my taste buds. I recently drank Nogne Imperial Stout and Dungarvan Blackrock (not blind). In my, and my friends, opinions the Blackrock was better.
I think that there are some fantastic stouts being brewed here, maybe we are only discovering the variances possible in other styles that have only recently been rediscovered / developed.

Sometimes far away fields are greener.[/quote:326xufi0]

This is my point, world class is completely meaningless. Your opinion of beer is completely subjective. One persons 'World Class Beer' is another persons swill.