TOPIC:

Ireland has no world class breweries and is not a world class brewing nation.

I think for the term to have any meaning, it has to refer to a brewery where several of their beers are among the best in their style or class.

A Founders level of consistency.
The way The Kernel does amazing IPAs and historical porters *and* low ABV sours.
How beer geeks build holidays around visiting Cantillon.

I went to Cascade Barrel House in Portland earlier this year; they specialize in wild yeast. The first beer I tasted blew away every notion I had of what a sour was. The next four beers were better than that.

A world class brewing nation has several of these breweries. Ireland has none right now.

I could count world class Irish beers on one hand, and there aren't two from the same brewery. Which is not to say we don't have some very good beers - there are certainly some tasty brews around.

We're making progress, but we've still got a ways to go.

But in Ireland they are world famous...

"KeeganAles":3ff8po4t wrote: Ireland has no world class breweries and is not a world class brewing nation.

I think for the term to have any meaning, it has to refer to a brewery where several of their beers are among the best in their style or class.

A Founders level of consistency.
The way The Kernel does amazing IPAs and historical porters *and* low ABV sours.
How beer geeks build holidays around visiting Cantillon.

I went to Cascade Barrel House in Portland earlier this year; they specialize in wild yeast. The first beer I tasted blew away every notion I had of what a sour was. They next four beers were better than that.

A world class brewing nation has several of these breweries. Ireland has none right now.

I could count world class Irish beers on one hand, and there aren't two from the same brewery. Which is not to say we don't have some very good beers - there are certainly some tasty brews around.

We're making progress, but we've still got a ways to go.[/quote:3ff8po4t]

as Lenny aid its fairly subjective. Sweetman got in to top 10 worldwide new breweries last year but we probbly wouldn't even rate them in top 5 here. class is in the eye of the beer holder

WOW, No replys for 24 days and then a torrent. Do you guys just log on in packs or something?! <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

Firstly by world class breweries I mean those that can compete with those in other countries in terms of quality, range, professionalism, image, etc. Of course taste comes in to it too, but as ye point out - and I agree - that's very subjective. But a well made beer is a well made beer is it not? Regardless of your personal preferences. Perhaps not...

Is a 'world class' brewing nation not one that can offer a non-macro, craft beer to anyone who drinks [i:3ncf5tyl]any[/i:3ncf5tyl] kind of beer from light lagers to imperial stouts with the knowledge it will compare favourably with those offered by other nations? (Our biggest stumbling block in this country is availability outside major urban centres not choice IMO.)

And sure there are a number of better individual breweries in other countries but that's not the same thing is it?

Personally speaking I've moved on (back?) from hop bomb beers with hops added just for the [i:3ncf5tyl]sake[/i:3ncf5tyl] of adding hops (Let's push those IBUs to the limit!) and all this 'extreme' beer stuff that even many in the US are moving away from. Sour beers and IIPAs are only two (big) styles of beers after all... (Having said that I'm off to Belgium to try some sours beers in a couple of weeks. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt="" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> )

Some of my new favourites in Irish beers are those like O'Hara's Helles, which is one of the most under appreciated beers in their range - again IMO - and also stouts such as Buried at Sea and, as TBN mentioned, Wrasslers.

I've had as many beers I thought were 'meh' from US, Belgian, English, Danish, etc. brewers as I've had from Irish ones recently, perhaps more in fact. (And yes [i:3ncf5tyl]my[/i:3ncf5tyl] 'meh' is not [i:3ncf5tyl]everyone's[/i:3ncf5tyl] 'meh'.)

A case in point, I was at a cask festival in Ludlow early this summer and out of the 220 beers on offer from maybe 50 different breweries only a couple of beers of the 30 or more I tried were really good. But it made me think that the reason for me formulating this opinion was because the Irish breweries had upped their game and range considerably. And that was before some of the new guys appeared this summer! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

But as we keep saying it is very subjective and depends on what each individual is looking for in a beer...

By the way I [i:3ncf5tyl]did[/i:3ncf5tyl] put a question mark in the subject title!

&amp;quot;Liam&amp;quot;:2gexkoho wrote: Is a 'world class' brewing nation not one that can offer a non-macro, craft beer to anyone who drinks [i:2gexkoho]any[/i:2gexkoho] kind of beer from light lagers to imperial stouts with the knowledge it will compare favourably with those offered by other nations?
[/quote:2gexkoho]

I got into a debate on one of the boards on this point regarding which is a better country to send a beer tourist, Ireland or Austria?

Austria has deep history with beer, excellent examples of certain styles (lagers, mostly), and some local specialities (Zwickls in Vienna) but craft hasn't really gotten going and there's not much outside of the Germanic brewing tradition.

Compare that to Ireland with variety, experimentation, and creativity but basically nothing that's not macro more than 20 years old.

So which is more of a "world class brewing nation"?

&amp;quot;KeeganAles&amp;quot;:1b0pwlm7 wrote: Compare that to Ireland with variety, experimentation, and creativity but basically nothing that's not macro more than 20 years old.[/quote:1b0pwlm7]

Puts us in the same class as America then...