TOPIC:

Continued from the Chicken in Hommelbier thread[/url:y2elopp9]:

"Wobbler":y2elopp9 wrote:

"TheBeerNut":y2elopp9 wrote:

"Wobbler":y2elopp9 wrote: I can't help but think that if some beer makers invenested (and charged) the amounts that top end wine producers do, the results could be stunning.[/quote:y2elopp9](Veering further off topic...) Well, you've got your Deus or Fuller's Vintage if you want to go that way. [i:y2elopp9]I[/i:y2elopp9] think that craft brewers should be trying to lower production costs (while maintaining quality, of course) and compete with the over-priced rubbish. We see it in the on-trade (Messrs Maguire in particular); it'd be great to have in offies and supermarkets too.[/quote:y2elopp9]
Maybe this deserves it's own thread. I will say that Fullers Vintage and especially Deus are exactly what I was talking about. I'd love to see much more stuff like that.

I'm not sure if I agree with you about reducing the costs to compete with the mainstream muck. Obviously, I'm not out to pay as much as possible for beer but I'd rather pay for a superior product rather than pay less for muck.

I think Portherhouse's and Messrs' main lagers are almost indistinguishable from the mainstream muck. It might be true to say that they are slightly nicer, but it's splitting hairs and people will nearly always go for the better advertised piss. The best hope craft beer has of thriving is by producing quality interesting beers aimed at a wider audience (ie more like Hooker and less like Chiller. Just my opinion of course.[/quote:y2elopp9]

"oblivious":y2elopp9 wrote:

"Wobbler":y2elopp9 wrote: I think Portherhouse's and Messrs' main lagers are almost indistinguishable from the mainstream muck. [/quote:y2elopp9]

That may have been the intentention.[/quote:y2elopp9]

I agree, and I think that's the problem: too many craft brewers make popular styles, but have to charge more for them. It's only a niche market who will trade up to €2.79 on a bottle of O'Hara's Red instead of the usual €2 can of Smithwick's. I'd like to see the O'Hara's competing on price, but I'd also like to see Carlow IPA on the shelves, for which I'll happily pay €2.79 for and which is more likely to attract a new audience, IMO.

Yes let's lobby the micros to stop competing with the majors.
By all means let micro pubs serve Guinness and Heineken to those that want it but give us some real beer.
It's great for Cork that The Well exists but come on, more Purgatory Ale and it's like and less Blarney Blonde and Shandon Stout. I don't want to drink bland lager and stout and the average punter is too brand loyal.

Micro brewerys aim for the niche market cause you will not compete in the mainstream!!

It would be a shame to lose Blarney Blonde just because it looks a bit like a lager. Rebel Lager is expendable, though.

And I'm back-pedalling further with the stouts: both O'Hara'a stout and Shandon would be sorely missed. Besides, if the figures are to be believed, stout's nearly a speciality product in Ireland these days...

OK I admit that it's a long time since I tasted Blarney or Shandon. Maybe I should revisit. But I did like their Purgatory and Bell Ringer.
My problem is that I just don't like The Well as a pub unless it's summertime and I'm outside.
Terrible decor, rotten toilets, crap music, no atmosphere. I hate the fact that Cork has only one micro brewery and bar the odd pint of FriarWeiss I can't bring myself to support it.

The craft beer market is in a bind in Ireland because I am sure the brewers would like to turn out new and interesting beers, but they can't rely upon the small amount of true beer lovers to financially support them. As a result they must brew mass appeal type lagers to pay the bills. In fairness any craft brewed lager I've had in Ireland is invariably better than a macro produced one.

"noby":3dmrxabj wrote: Wobbler, I don't mind paying a little more for a well crafted beer, but I guess there might be a risk of making it exclusive for exclusivity's sake. You can see it already in America with the world's strongest/most expensive 'my abv is bigger than your abv' stuff going on.[/quote:3dmrxabj]
I know what you mean about the American beer taking the thing to extremes but that's not to say that producers spending more and charging more for a higher enmd product wouldn't be a welcome development. This could be in addition to their other (higher selling) products. You get the same thing with wine, whiskey and in fairness beer to a lesser extent. I think the future for old style lambic might be raising the price significantly.

"noby":3dmrxabj wrote: Also is wine a fair comparison? Good grape crops are so much more dependant on that year's weather conditions. Is that the same with beer ingredients? (besides shortages I mean)[/quote:3dmrxabj]

No, in some respects wine is an unfair comparison. The main ingredient in beer is water which is free or very, very cheap. The main ingredient in wine is grape juice. Also beer is usually fermented and matured in a fraction of the time it takes beer.

Therefore, it is right and proper that most beer should be much cheaper than most wine. These aren't the only factors though. If beermakers knew they could charge "wine prices" for certain "super premium" beers, they could make something incredible (such as Deus).