TOPIC:

I'm with Wobbler on this one.

"TheBeerNut":3mn5m0wp wrote: I can't imagine any decent beers are being sold at below cost, so really I couldn't give a monkeys about it. [/quote:3mn5m0wp]

That's all very well, but an offy's bread and butter is also made up from the sale of cans of lager. If this is squeezed from them by cheap supermarkets, then the offy closes, giving less choice for the consumer.

The removal of the groceries order was a good thing in my opinion. The reason it was brought in in the first place was the collapse of H. Williams back in the good ol' 80s. It was a protectionism mechanism that has no place in what is supposed to be be a open and competition driven economy. The justification for it was long gone, the objectors to it was the local cornershop and the likes of Spar and Centra, who would be mad to try and compete with Tesco et al on price anyway. Only people who have more money than sense would do their weekly shop in one of these places. They make their money when people drop in for one or two items that they are easier to obtain quickly and conveniently, at a higher price, rather than go through the supermarket experience. Hence the "convenience store" tag.


Similarly, the modern off-licence can't compete with the supermarkets on price, so the business model to follow is one where the range of products and knowledge is superior. The margins on such products is invariably higher too.


I'd be of the opinion that you can't pick and choose what methods of protectionism you favour. That way the door is left swinging open for whatever lobby has the greatest influence to have the law work in their favour. No one is in any doubt that the publicans lobby is one of the stronger ones. And as we've seen they've been able to keep the ridiculous mechanism that disbars the opening of a new licensed establishment without the purchase of a licence from a current incumbent. This in spite of the direct recommendation of the Competition Authority that the whole mechanism should be scrapped, which is where the publicans lobby has done it's work. Leading to much higher prices and reduction of choice in the pubs than otherwise would be the case.

I am an off-licence owner. I hope you don't mind if I contribute to this discussion.
I have a passion for the products that I sell and I strive to provide a wide and interesting range of wines, beers and spirits. Myself and my staff have a good level of knowledge about the products we sell.
However, a large part of my sales are made up of the type of mainstream products that are being heavily discounted in the large multiples. Without the sales of these products, I would not be in a position to offer the extended range and high levels of service that I currently can.
I know of a number of other traditional off-licences that are seeing an alarming drop in sales to a level where the value of their property is higher than the value of their business. These outlets will close up, leaving a greater share of the market to the large multiples.
If an off-licence is to survive by selling only specialist wines, beers and spirits, it will have to be charging higher margins in order for their business to be viable. So in effect, it could be said that the lower the price a can of Bud goes, the higher the price of specialist beers will go. Those with a more educated palate will suffer.
I am not against competition. I feel it is good and it forces businesses to be sharp and to make sure that they are offering the customer an overall proposition that they will appreciate. But in the long term, if unrestrained, deep discounting will continue, traditional off-licences will close and the result will be poorer service and less choice of location and of product.
Tesco won't seek out the next batch of Augustiner Helles; Dunnes Stores won't source Timothy Taylor's Landlord Ale. I will.

"1carrot2":1hp1xw70 wrote: I am an off-licence owner. I hope you don't mind if I contribute to this discussion.
I have a passion for the products that I sell and I strive to provide a wide and interesting range of wines, beers and spirits. Myself and my staff have a good level of knowledge about the products we sell.
However, a large part of my sales are made up of the type of mainstream products that are being heavily discounted in the large multiples. Without the sales of these products, I would not be in a position to offer the extended range and high levels of service that I currently can.
I know of a number of other traditional off-licences that are seeing an alarming drop in sales to a level where the value of their property is higher than the value of their business. These outlets will close up, leaving a greater share of the market to the large multiples.
If an off-licence is to survive by selling only specialist wines, beers and spirits, it will have to be charging higher margins in order for their business to be viable. So in effect, it could be said that the lower the price a can of Bud goes, the higher the price of specialist beers will go. Those with a more educated palate will suffer.
I am not against competition. I feel it is good and it forces businesses to be sharp and to make sure that they are offering the customer an overall proposition that they will appreciate. But in the long term, if unrestrained, deep discounting will continue, traditional off-licences will close and the result will be poorer service and less choice of location and of product.
Tesco won't seek out the next batch of Augustiner Helles; Dunnes Stores won't source Timothy Taylor's Landlord Ale. I will.[/quote:1hp1xw70]

All valid points. The problem with below cost selling is that rather than encoraging competition, it can cause monopolies since only the largest companies can afford to do it.

Hi 1carrot2. Welcome, and thanks for joining in.

You mention that those of us with an appetite for craft beers will end up having to pay more if supermarkets corner the market on cheap lager and cider. I can't help thinking about parallels with wine retailing: the like of Mitchell's or The Corkscrew don't stock the €7.99 Chilean cabernets which are the backbone of supermarket wine trade. Does this mean that wine consumers are at a disadvantage because high-end retailers don't stock lower-end product?

"TheBeerNut":o4t01vvu wrote: Hi 1carrot2. Welcome, and thanks for joining in.

You mention that those of us with an appetite for craft beers will end up having to pay more if supermarkets corner the market on cheap lager and cider. I can't help thinking about parallels with wine retailing: the like of Mitchell's or The Corkscrew don't stock the €7.99 Chilean cabernets which are the backbone of supermarket wine trade. Does this mean that wine consumers are at a disadvantage because high-end retailers don't stock lower-end product?[/quote:o4t01vvu]
I reckon the market for classy wines is greather than the market for craft beer.