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Sure, I bend the rules too and sometimes the beer ends up being a different style to that intended, but that's what experiments are for. To be fair if you read the BJCP styleguides all they're trying to do is represent what's out there. I'm sure they're not perfect but it's good to have something to go on. Now, let's see if my 'English IPA' is more like an ESB <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

And like my 3B ESB was actually more like a very very dark Irish Red apparently.. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Definitely fun to stretch the styles. Sure we wouldn't have fabulous beers like Goose Island if there was no stretching. Just means more styles though <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

&amp;quot;bigears&amp;quot;:13cy9u38 wrote: To be fair if you read the BJCP styleguides all they're trying to do is represent what's out there.[/quote:13cy9u38]Critics say the problem is that they fail badly at this. Representing nearly the entirety of Czech beer as "Bohemian Pilsner" suggests not having a bog about what's out there in the Czech Republic, for instance.

[quote:1fy7bf91]Critics say the problem is that they fail badly at this. Representing nearly the entirety of Czech beer as "Bohemian Pilsner" suggests not having a bog about what's out there in the Czech Republic, for instance.[/quote:1fy7bf91]I have no doubt the critics are right as I don't have enough knowledge to claim otherwise, but I wouldn't think it's an easy task to represent everything and I'm not aware of any alternative categorisation. They do claim to be open to additions so if you take them at their word the correct course of action to take is to test them on this claim. Obviously the BJCP is American influenced and as such there will be people who would rather bitch about it rather than get involved in improving it. As a homebrewer I find it an enormously useful reference.

&amp;quot;bigears&amp;quot;:30q9p154 wrote: They do claim to be open to additions so if you take them at their word the correct course of action to take is to test them on this claim. Obviously the BJCP is American influenced and as such there will be people who would rather bitch about it rather than get involved in improving it.[/quote:30q9p154]Oh absolutely. However there are [i:30q9p154]long[/i:30q9p154] discussions on Ron's blog between Ron and Kristen England, the BJCP's Education Director -- mostly quite positive stuff, aimed at improving the guidelines instead of just bitching. So the amendment process is well under way <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

My own problem with the BJCP guidelines is when they are applied as judging criteria to commercial beers. I was once drinking with an American beer journalist -- an opinion-former -- who paid the highest compliment he could to Ølfabrikken Porter with the words "Mmm... Fits the profile".

Following attention to BJCP guidelines [i:30q9p154]outside of homebrew competitions[/i:30q9p154] impedes innovation in brewing. And I'm agin' it.

With apologies for offtopicness.

It's a shame the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage doesn't give a bit more historical information (see this one[/url:30q9p154] for instance -- the [i:30q9p154]name[/i:30q9p154] of the brewery would be nice).

Adeptus, do you know if the cities are likely to be done any time soon?

[quote:2y58imdi]Oh absolutely. However there are long discussions on Ron's blog between Ron and Kristen England, the BJCP's Education Director -- mostly quite positive stuff, aimed at improving the guidelines instead of just bitching. So the amendment process is well under way[/quote:2y58imdi]
<!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Good to hear, must have a read some time I've got a spare while...

[quote:2y58imdi]My own problem with the BJCP guidelines is when they are applied as judging criteria to commercial beers. I was once drinking with an American beer journalist -- an opinion-former -- who paid the highest compliment he could to Ølfabrikken Porter with the words "Mmm... Fits the profile".

Following attention to BJCP guidelines outside of homebrew competitions impedes innovation in brewing. And I'm agin' it. [/quote:2y58imdi]
I couldn't agree more, I view them as guidelines to help document existing styles rather than rules that must be followed.

Sorry for off-topicness again.