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Places in Vienna? 14 years 4 months ago #1

Leaving to Vienna in a couple hours; haven't had anytime to do my homework; any recommendations?

Thanks,
Adam

Places in Vienna? 14 years 4 months ago #2

1516, definitely. 7 Stern, pretty good. Other brewpubs (Wieden; Salm etc) optional.

Places in Vienna? 14 years 4 months ago #3

I wasn't a fan of the 7 stern <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> (not because of the beer - more just the place itself).

Last time I was there I stumbled upon the Fischerbrau - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.fischerbraeu.at/">www.fischerbraeu.at/ Its a nice cozy kind of place with great food. The beer wasn't too bad either!

Places in Vienna? 14 years 4 months ago #4

&amp;quot;TheBeerNut&amp;quot;:bt3s62kj wrote: 1516, definitely. 7 Stern, pretty good. Other brewpubs (Wieden; Salm etc) optional.[/quote:bt3s62kj]

Wow, this is almost exactly a list of places I visited!

I loved 7 Stern myself, including the atmosphere (kind of half German brew pub half American brew pub kinda feel); they brewed some very edgy beers: a beer brewed with hemp seeds, a fantastic full-flavored dunkel (that they called a "Prague Dunkel"), a weihnachts bock ("Christmas night bock") which was surprisingly light-colored like a maibock and slightly cloudy. They also brewed a chili beer and a Bamberg-style rauch beer but I didn't get to try either of these. Definitely a "keinheitsgebot" brewer.


1516 was SUPER centrally located and I liked the small, modern pub feel but it was INSANELY smokey including lots of cigar smoke and it really detracted from the beer experience. Their beer was definitely in the vein of American craft breweries but with more of a focus on hoppiness and late additions and less of a focus on high bitterness.

I tried an IPA brewed with a Slovenian hop called "Savinjski"$$ it was absolutely delicious but in no way pale. It was the color of a dunkel or the BJCP "style" of brown porter. The beer menu included detailed information on the beers' ingredients like an American craft brewery. Belgian pale, Cara aroma, and obviously some much darker malt in there, Slovenian Magnum for bittering and Savinjski for aroma (2 additions). Super sweet and "juicy" hop when used this way and I'm going to try to track it down this year as the Slovenian, Czech and Polish hops look to be the only cheap hops this year.

They also had an Equatorial Pale Ale that had NZ Moutuka hops, African Coriander, and some herb/spice called "hail"$$ again a big focus on hop flavor but not high bitterness; much drier than the very sweet Savinjski.

They had their own beer that they daringly called "Victory Hop Devil" -I did not get to try it but I did confirm that they brew it themselves and it's not a guest beer from America.

I also tried their "Eejit Oatmeal Stout"$$ it was a pitch black beer served on nitro and had a dense tan head; almost no roast flavor and low hop bitterness; it was late and dry hopped with Cascade and this was really the featuring flavor. Nothing like a stout, like a Black IPA without the roast, or a Czech Dark Lager or German Schwartzbier but with loads of American hop aroma and flavor. Eminently drinkable. I could drink loads of this in winter or summer but if you're looking for a roasty stout this is NOT your pint.

They also had a pale ale called "Yakima Sunrise" Pale ale that was very similar to the Equatorial Pale Ale except without the weird spices and this time featuring a blend of American NW hops.


My hotel was also just down the street from Salm Brau so I went there for a great traditional dinner; the place just oozes Bavarian influence including waiters wearing lederhosen and a mix of Bavarian and Viennese food. These guys have not only been a brewery for basically forever (originally the brewery of the Monastary next door) but also manufacture brewing equipment that brew pubs use around the world. All beers are made with a traditional double decoction and NO FILTERING; the beers are all slightly to very cloudy and have a grainy finish to them. Their "Marzen" was nearly indistinguishable from a couple of other Zwickel beers I tried in Vienna.


Adam

Places in Vienna? 14 years 4 months ago #5

Vienna is a GREAT and under-appreciated beer destination, in my opinion; I really couldn't believe the availability and the opportunity to find some very rare beers.

I've NEVER , EVER seen even remotely close to this much unfiltered lager ANYWHERE. I'm not sure if this is something that's new or old or whether it's isolated to Vienna or exists all across Austria but there are unfiltered and unpasteurized fresh lagers available ABUNDANTLY in Vienna. -WHY OH WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THIS?!

The small Austrian brewers, like the small Dutch brewers in the Netherlands, appear to have a fall/wintertime obsession with bock beers. (Which, to my best educated guess just means "stronger than normal beer brewed for cold weather" and nothing approaching either of the BJCP bock style definitions.)
[i:37feco36]Note: Don't confuse me here, the definition of "Bok" in the Netherlands is very different and seems to normally mean an exceptionally strong, phenoly, usually dark ale brewed with a Belgian strain while all versions I've seen in Vienna and Germany are brewed with lager yeast, stronger than the normal non-"bockified" versions of the beer and can be light or dark or anywhere in between.[/i:37feco36]

A grocery store in the underground level of the Vienna airport was selling a 9 pack of beer that included one bock beer from 9 different Austrian breweries; I was incredibly sad that I did not have the ability to bring these back as my bag was already EXACTLY at the 22KG weight limit from my other beer and wine purchases.


BJCP needs to send some high ranking judges to Vienna in a hurry because it absolutely DESTROYS the BJCP guidelines and most pre-conceived notions of of beers bearing the names of "Zwickel" & "Märzen"$$ even "lager"$$ Horst Dornbusch's style description of Zwickelbier even seems to fall apart when stood next to the Zwickel beers of Vienna, anyway (I haven't had any German Zwickel beers so I can't speak to them.)

The Märzens I found in Vienna were quite light in color and pretty low in finishing gravity and not remotely orange or sweet; they were also unfiltered and cloudy and hoppier than their Munich fest beer modern day cousins. (I was incredibly surprised and happy to see almost every brewery I visited advertising unfiltered and unpasteurized beers as a positive attribute.)

"Vienna Zwickel" (I made that term up; it means nothing more than Zwickel from Vienna) was served from keg at normal keg temps and CO2 levels both places I tried it (I still have a bottled version to sample) and very effervescent and cloudy (this tracks with the "German Beer Institute's" description so far), but extremely lemony both from acids (alpha acids) and late hop additions; this is where the Vienna version of Zwickel didn't standup to the German Beer Institute's description that hints at lower hop levels to Kellerbier. -According to them Zwickel and Kellerbier are one at the same but Zwickel is served earlier than Kellerbier, which I absolutely believe as Zwickel had a LOT of yeast in solution, looking identical to a weiss beer, and has less hops. The Zwickel that I had was all kegged and quite cold, cloudy, identically lemony (same or extremely similar hop variety) and slightly bready from the yeast, but just as hoppy as any Kellerbier that I had.

In my limited experience so far, I've found Zwickel and Kellerbier to be almost identical except that Kellerbier was warmer, had less carbonation, and was clearer because yeast was allowed to settle out although it still had a distinct haze.

I'm very sad that I didn't get to try an example of a Vienna Red Lager, although I tried. Ottakringer supposedly makes a "red Zwickel" ("rottes Zwickel") that is supposed to be the closest thing to the original old Vienna lager. The "Marzen" that I had at Salm said it was brewed with a "darker malt that wasn't caramel" which is essentially a description of Vienna malt but the color ended much too light for really anyone to call remotely red so I don't think it was too close.


Vienna is a paradise of what seem to be very old beer traditions continuing and is a rare/unheard of to me, anyway, bastion of support for unfiltered lager. They have 15-20 local, often tiny microbreweries and brew pubs in the middle of a city steeped in wine culture.


I feel an incredible urge to go back and find the beers and breweries I missed. One weekend is NOT enough in Vienna; not even close.

If you have a sweet tooth they have an incredible number of unique baked goods including the famous (and over-hyped, IMO, "Sacher Torte" chocolate cake with apricot jam filling and a chocolate ganache frosting).

It's a happy, happy place and the Christmas markets are brilliant so convincing your other half should be easy this time of year.

Adam

Places in Vienna? 14 years 4 months ago #6

P.S. If anyone reads this in the future while planning a trip to Vienna and can make it to Hopfen Schampus: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="www.hopfenschampus.at/">www.hopfenschampus.at/ there are few things that I wouldn't trade for a bottle of this "freak-of-nature" beer.

A weird concoction of beer and wine (sounds like hopped dry white wine); literally translated to "hop champagne".

It's located in the Naschmarkt district at 4 Rechte Wienzeile 25-27.

-It appears to be owned by the Ottakringer folks and seems to just be a blend of the Ottakringer helles and a white wine grape... No website any more only a Facebook page...

PLEASE PM Me and we'll see if we can make a deal!
-If anyone from Austria reads this, the same deal applies; PM me for a trade!



Adam
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