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"TheBeerNut":1kc76fg1 wrote:

"justflow1983":1kc76fg1 wrote: Go into Anseo on Camden Street, which is always packed.[/quote:1kc76fg1]Packed and smelly, IIRC. So what were people drinking? All Hooker? Betcha it wasn't. [/quote:1kc76fg1]
Didn't say it was. But about a quarter are drinking something other than the standard 5 macros.

"TheBeerNut":1kc76fg1 wrote:

"justflow1983":1kc76fg1 wrote: the regulars there would prob be willing to try new beers.[/quote:1kc76fg1]And the Diageo, Heineken and C&C reps have prob been telling the management that their beers are what the clients want. And can prob reduce the wholesale price if the management get funny ideas about independent breweries and fancy imports.[/quote:1kc76fg1]

"TheBeerNut":1kc76fg1 wrote:

"justflow1983":1kc76fg1 wrote: Even Solas has been quietly adding taps, although they don't seem to put much interesting into them.[/quote:1kc76fg1]I don't know what game Solas is playing, but I rarely see people drinking the interesting beers. Likewise with O'Neill's.[/quote:1kc76fg1] Well its a positive step in the right direction. And again, they do get drank, even if it means they need to be kept under pressurized CO2 to stay fresh.

"TheBeerNut":1kc76fg1 wrote:

"justflow1983":1kc76fg1 wrote: I don't think expanded beer selections are going to hurt sales.[/quote:1kc76fg1]Can't argue with that. But I thought you were talking about [i:1kc76fg1]reducing[/i:1kc76fg1] the selection, ie turfing out the macrocrap.[/quote:1kc76fg1] I was, but I also am changing my thoughts on strategies as I go, since I'm attempting to come up with a positive solution rather than just accept failure.

"TheBeerNut":1kc76fg1 wrote:

"justflow1983":1kc76fg1 wrote: My generation (mid 20s) is full of people whinging about lack of beer selection[/quote:1kc76fg1]and when they whinge [i:1kc76fg1]into their bottles of Corona[/i:1kc76fg1] they're part of the problem we have. The good beer is there: too many of the people who want better choice won't drink it. [/quote:1kc76fg1] I'd say you haven't spoken to too many people under 30 lately. Many of them have a pretty expanded view of what's interesting, especially the internationally oriented professionals. If they like Corona, well they can have it as long as they don't buy me one.

"TheBeerNut":1kc76fg1 wrote:

"justflow1983":1kc76fg1 wrote: It has to be integrated into the right atmosphere and reach the people who would be willing to try it.[/quote:1kc76fg1]Heineken and Diageo are great at the sort of thing. Because they can afford the promotional teams and product to go round doing it, in a way that the microbreweries and specialist importers can't. It all comes down to hard cash at the end. The big boys have it; the small boys don't.[/quote:1kc76fg1] I'm a designer, and I can tell you from experience that creating the right atmosphere isn't hard to do. Shebeen Chic wasn't decorated by Diageo, and yet people like being in there (although it reminds me of the worst of Brooklyn hip). Its a matter of assembling the right creative team, and it doesn't even cost that much but too many small businesses decide to go it alone and pay for it later.

"justflow1983":1kc76fg1 wrote: They survive as high quality, successful micro only bars[/quote:1kc76fg1]That doesn't hold up with the amount of Kopparberg, Coors Light and Erdinger I see them sell in all their branches. Used to be that asking for Heineken in the Porterhouse got you pointed to a house lager. Now it gets you a Heineken.

Doesn't mean that people don't go there for the craft beer. Most do. But if you bring your adamantly Heineken drinking friend then its better to give them something to drink & shut them up.

Enough with the smug "can'ts" and maybe try to see ways around all these big bad roadblocks.

"TheBeerNut":1qghm5ip wrote:

"sbillings":1qghm5ip wrote: Do you think the nature of the license trade in Ireland precludes a pub from only stocking micros and imports?[/quote:1qghm5ip]No. But the cost of doing it makes it very hard. Tim Martin decided it wasn't going to work for him, and given his supermarket-like buying power that should give anyone pause.[/quote:1qghm5ip]

A different issue. Tim Martin was not looking at setting up a micro oriented pub, he was looking at setting a chain of budget Irish pubs with cheap Guinness, cheap Bud and Cheap Smithwicks. What killed the idea was Diagio Ireland telling him that he can't expect anything like the deal he gets from Diagio UK.

I agree that is would be difficult, but setting up any kind of pub (or business for that matter) in the current climate is going to be an uphill struggle.

Now that I think about it, I think the space itself is a much more important issue than the type of beer. Make it a place that people would enjoy being serious about beer in, rather than just serve serious beers. Comfy chairs, lots of wood, the right light levels, booths maybe? Or a clear spot at the bar for ordering?

People like the Porterhouse because its a great space. If you make a place that's [i:2924h3r2]that[/i:2924h3r2] nice to be in, then I don't think only serving unusual beers would really hurt you. Especially if 2 or 3 were pretty straightforward options.[/i]

"justflow1983":1k6u3zwt wrote: I'd say you haven't spoken to too many people under 30 lately.[/quote:1k6u3zwt]Does getting out of my armchair to shake my walking stick through the window at them count?

I find Boards[/url:1k6u3zwt] very useful for taking the pulse of the young Irish drinker. And you get a lot of people there who complain about selection but can't be arsed making the effort to find something better. And even more others who are extremely happy drinking rubbish. Both of which make it difficult to back up an argument in favour of bars selling better beer.

"justflow1983":1k6u3zwt wrote: If they like Corona, well they can have it[/quote:1k6u3zwt]And that's as far as the conversation goes, where most licence holders are concerned.

"justflow1983":1k6u3zwt wrote: creating the right atmosphere isn't hard to do.[/quote:1k6u3zwt]I'm talking about pushing product here. I'm talking about free samples, promotions, competitions: that sells beer and creates product awareness more than mood lighting ever will.

"justflow1983":1k6u3zwt wrote: Doesn't mean that people don't go there for the craft beer. Most do.[/quote:1k6u3zwt]I don't happen to agree with that. But I don't think either of us can prove it.

"justflow1983":1k6u3zwt wrote: if you bring your adamantly Heineken drinking friend then its better to give them something to drink & shut them up.[/quote:1k6u3zwt]And that's as far as the conversation goes, where most licence holders are concerned. And it's easier for them if you have a Heineken and shut up too. Quiet Heinekens for all while I count my money.

"justflow1983":1k6u3zwt wrote: Enough with the smug "can'ts" and maybe try to see ways around all these big bad roadblocks.[/quote:1k6u3zwt]Righty-o.
1. Stop drinking macrocrap.

2. Encourage production of local microbrewed beer by
a) Compiling a list of pubs[/url:1k6u3zwt] where the beer is available.
b) Participating in events which raise their profile.

3. Map[/url:1k6u3zwt] all the bars and off licences where a good selection of beers is available.

4. Have zero tolerance for the notion that the selection of beer available in Ireland is bad.

OK. Your turn. What've you got?

"sbillings":ipsqk2vb wrote: Tim Martin was not looking at setting up a micro oriented pub, he was looking at setting a chain of budget Irish pubs with cheap Guinness, cheap Bud and Cheap Smithwicks.[/quote:ipsqk2vb]That's my point. He could have stocked it with cheap GK IPA and San Miguel but realised that [i:ipsqk2vb]speciality beers wouldn't work in Dublin[/i:ipsqk2vb]. The fact that Diageo had make-or-break influence over someone as powerful as he speaks volumes about the Irish beer and pub trade.

"sbillings":ipsqk2vb wrote: but setting up any kind of pub (or business for that matter) in the current climate is going to be an uphill struggle.[/quote:ipsqk2vb]The fewer the risks, the more gentle the incline.

Mood lighting? Really? Is this 1978? The height, openness, and color of a space are what get people to like or dislike their environment, and its very easy to control.

Boards.ie is basically a moan-tank. I wouldn't use that for much of a pulse. I have been envangelizing about appreciating beer since I moved to Ireland about 2 years ago. I have converted almost everyone that I see regularly into a beer appreciator. I do it by not judging their tastes, but just buying something interesting when its my round. They all are out trying new beers now once in a while, and its as many women as men.

This is the first time I've honestly even had the conversation about how to do it on a larger than social scale... and if I hadn't started brewing about 4 months ago I wouldn't have known about ICB. But to be honest you won't reach too many people by railing against the Macrocrap, or even trying to educate the drinking public with charts. I drink Heineken once in a while, and I often go to my local where I only drink Guiness because I like the barman. If you try to include people, to give them the thrill of discovery, then you'll reach them. And it happens on a very low level.

You have to make things cool... when something comes into style people will throw away their preconceptions pretty quickly. Happened to almost everyone I knew in college at about age 20, they discovered some interesting beers and suddenly they realized its not a scary world out there. Some of them still prefer lager, but honestly being a lager doesn't not automatically make a beer inferior. People there would often switch between expensive micros when they just have a couple, and cheap swill when having 10 of them. Being militantly Anti-Macro-Man will turn all of those people off to the cause.