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Belgian yeast needed asap! 15 years 10 months ago #1

Hello Chaps and Chapettes!

I have just started mashing a dubbel (first AG... wish me luck <!-- s:-) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:-) --> ) and - to my horror! - realised that the refrigerated High Gravity Trappist yeat have not started the starter... Anybody has a surplus of any form of belgian yeast in Dublin I could collect today evening or tomorrow?

Cheers
Alek

15 years 10 months ago #2

Can't help you there, but if you need to buy yourself more time to make the starter, you could always do this[/url:165mn920]

15 years 10 months ago #3

Thanks for the tip! I don't really think I can get them before Wed-Thu even if I order today... :-/

Perhaps Danstar Windsor would do? I have a spare packet in the fridge and it is supposed to give estery/fruity profile in high temp... the grain bill is

2800 g Pale Ale
2000 g Lager Malt
400 g Special B - Caramel malt
350 g Melanoidin Malt
200 g Aromatic Malt (Amber 50)
500 g Lyle's Golden Syrup

15 years 10 months ago #4

&amp;quot;alkos&amp;quot;:26cn2j4r wrote: Thanks for the tip! I don't really think I can get them before Wed-Thu even if I order today... :-/

Perhaps Danstar Windsor would do? I have a spare packet in the fridge and it is supposed to give estery/fruity profile in high temp... the grain bill is

2800 g Pale Ale
2000 g Lager Malt
400 g Special B - Caramel malt
350 g Melanoidin Malt
200 g Aromatic Malt (Amber 50)
500 g Lyle's Golden Syrup[/quote:26cn2j4r]


I'd say that would be fine, and then you can plan the brew again with more time for the belgian yeast, and then you can compare them side by side to get an insight into what the yeast brings to the flavour.

15 years 10 months ago #5

I don't think you'll have any problems with the starter eventually waking up and fermenting it just fine.

There's going to be lots of live yeasties but they'll need time to warm up and wake up, and get multiplying. They need Free Amino Nitrogen (not a problem with AG, if doing extract just make sure you've added yeast nutrient) and oxygen for cell wall growth in order to reproduce (bud). I would probably reoxygenate every 6-12 hours until the population gets up to where it should be.


You should also end up with even more Belgiany esters from pitching a lower population of viable yeast. (The Belgians often pitch much lower quantities of yeast than the Americans would and some of the American brewers who consistently brew Belgian styles are slowly understanding that they need to underpitch to get the same estery profiles.)
-Having said that, if the population is REALLY low your yeasties will spit out lots of solventy flavors that you probably don't want..

To quote "Brew Like a Monk": [i:14bhyqke]"Higher pitching rates lower ethyl acetate levels. Very high or very low pitching rates increase ester levels"[/i:14bhyqke]. Ethyl Acetate == "Banana flavor". You're pitching low or very low so you'll probably have increased bananna and esters.

For this style of beer, have a starter that takes off slowly might not be a bad thing if you like the big yeast flavors.

The flavor contributions and behavior of the Wyeast "High Gravity Yeast" is SUPER well documented

3787 will spit out more of the higher fusol alcohols and solventy flavors at higher temps; you're already going to be getting more of those because you pitched a low population of viable yeast, so I'm hoping you started fermenting this pretty cool or else you could have lots of solventy flavor.
(If it's already pretty high in temp you also can't really cool most of the Belgian yeasts or they'll just drop out of solution and won't come back...)

Achel and Westmalle pitch 3787 at 18C and then let it ramp up to 20 (Westmalle) or 23 (Achel). Westvleteren pitches at 20C and then ramps it WAY up to 28 or 29C. Which probably explains the light smoky/burned flavor from all the fusol alcohols and solvents.

The higher the gravity the more esters you'll get too.

So you're looking at multiple factors cranking up the esters and fusol alcohols on tihs one already and you might want to try to do something else to crank them back down. More aeration will lower ester production depending upon how late in fermentation you already are. (Maybe aerate more...)

Open fermentation will also lower esters because of an increase in oxygenation so theoritically you could take the top off your fermenter to help, but then after the krausen starts falling back in you'd want to put the lid on to reduce the risk of infection.


Lots to think about.... I'd love to have your beer to experiment with right now. ; )


Adam

15 years 10 months ago #6

I've found underpitching belgian yeasts resulted in more of the clove rock taste and less of the banana.Upping the temperature though did up the banana notes.
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